LeBrun: Flames are looking at every single scenario to try and keep Giordano

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Because the Flames best players are not as good as many other team's best players.

And getting rid of the Flames' best players is going to improve that how?

As opposed to, you know, adding more good players.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

We really need a button for sarcasm on here....

There’s still green text.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

A first and a third is way too much to protect Giordano, and I am the poster that is unquestionably the most 'down' on the remaining defencemen on the Flames.



I would just trade Andersson. Why?


He does show that sometimes he is going to be a game-changer, both with his play and with his antics. I get it.


However, what I usually see is a slower defencemen who also often takes too long to decide on making a play. I know that Bingo has said this about Kylington a lot, but I also see this out of Andersson. Sometimes holds onto the puck for too long, and often gets beat to the puck. He has that shot, and he does make the occasional really strong offensive play - his vision does surprise me at times - but he is a mediocre offensive defencemen. Will he take a big step forward? I don't know. I think his lack of footspeed is going to continue holding him back.


That's why I would trade him. Heck, even after the expansion draft, I would prefer that the Flames trade him for assets, and then flip those assets (and add more) in trying to upgrade on him.

...


Defence scares me. Giordano is going to leave a bigger hole in the lineup than many people think (much like Brodie did - imagine a world last season in which we had Giordano-Brodie, Hanifin-Tanev!!). However, you can't pay what Seattle wants - that's way too much.

I think you are putting too much stock into one down year for Rasmus. On the bolded, in that world you are losing Gio for sure. Or Rasmus.

[howard_the_duck]

I think that is one thing not talked about enough this off-season. Short of some hasty FA pickups or winning a trade or two, are we that confident this flames roster without significant changes isn’t bottom 5 as it stands?

Subtraction through expansion draft and staying the course with this core could very well put us on track for a lottery pick. Markstrom or not, I’m not sold this team has top ~20 skill in the league right now.

Overspending on Hyman and other patchwork additions could scrape them into that top 16, I suppose. And then, who knows. Fingers crossed for Cinderella!

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think you are putting too much stock into one down year for Rasmus. On the bolded, in that world you are losing Gio for sure. Or Rasmus.

I might be overly-negative, and I can admit that. I do think his foot-speed is going to continue holding him back, but let's see what happens. So in my world, I am losing both of them, actually - Giordano to Seattle, and Andersson in a trade aimed at rebuilding this defence - assets from Andersson being combined with additional assets in an attempt to acquire a more competent 2-way top pairing defencemen, then one off the UFA bin that can play top 4.


I don't really believe in Andersson, and I realize that I am in the minority (and hopefully wrong - don't really care about being wrong at all). If I was Treliving, that's the moves I would try to make.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And getting rid of the Flames' best players is going to improve that how?

As opposed to, you know, adding more good players.

The flames don’t need to add good players. They need to add their best players. That’s not a good position to start from.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

The flames don’t need to add good players. They need to add their best players. That’s not a good position to start from.

Nobody said it was a good position. But getting rid of the good players they have will not make that position any better.

[howard_the_duck]

Not to win now, certainly.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But are they backed into a corner?

The other option would have been to not sign Tanev to avoid this situation, which wouldn't make the team better ... considerably worse.

They signed Giordano to a 6 year deal at 33 that spooked most of us that has aged so well that people are talking about losing him on the final year as backed into a corner.

Like most of the cap management argument, teams with great players on first contracts won't have big issues at all.

Haha, yeah I remember when the Gio contract was signed, a few on here were so worried that his game would deteriorate and we'd have to package draft picks to get rid of the cap hit.

Now we are talking about paying draft picks to keep him for his last season.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There’s still green text.

Sorry, my bad

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think that is one thing not talked about enough this off-season. Short of some hasty FA pickups or winning a trade or two, are we that confident this flames roster without significant changes isn’t bottom 5 as it stands?

Subtraction through expansion draft and staying the course with this core could very well put us on track for a lottery pick. Markstrom or not, I’m not sold this team has top ~20 skill in the league right now.

Overspending on Hyman and other patchwork additions could scrape them into that top 16, I suppose. And then, who knows. Fingers crossed for Cinderella!

I'm on the other end.

When you look at team rankings since Sutter took over the Flames were 2nd in CF%, 3rd in xGF% and 3rd in HDCF%.

They also improved into top ten in XGF60 on the PP, and xGA60 on the PK.

They had a lost year from their number one goaltender due to injury. Arguably a lost year from their number one center due to injury.

Not a heck of a lot went right last year.

That's not to say I'm in love with this team or the core ... I'm not. But I think a natural bounce back is expected from the chaos that went down last year.

Now without Giordano? That could be a step back.

And of course who knows what other changes are coming.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And getting rid of the Flames' best players is going to improve that how?

As opposed to, you know, adding more good players.

Well, I didn't say get rid of them per se, just said out best players aren't as good as most teams best players.

We won't win until our best players improve. So, that likely means finding players who are better than our best players. That's not easy when none of our prospects likely are going to be better than our best players, and we don't have the cap space to add players who will be better than our best players.

It's why I think a full rebuild is the way to go, since it will happen eventually anyway. I'd risk the chance that we actually will contend shortly to increase our chances of a shorter rebuild. The longer we wait to rebuild, the longer it will take.

[dino7c]

The Flames were 2nd overall with David Rittich in goal and Bill Peters behind the bench the last full NHL season

they are not rebuilding this summer, save your breath

Once you come to terms with that you might as well go out swinging...honestly what is the worst that will happen? More players to trade at the deadline if it falls flat on its face

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Sorry, my bad

No, my bad. So many people are losing their marbles around here, it's getting hard for me to remember which ones haven't – but I should be trying harder.

You've always seemed like one of the more level-headed ones to me.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm on the other end.

When you look at team rankings since Sutter took over the Flames were 2nd in CF%, 3rd in xGF% and 3rd in HDCF%.

They also improved into top ten in XGF60 on the PP, and xGA60 on the PK.

They had a lost year from their number one goaltender due to injury. Arguably a lost year from their number one center due to injury.

Not a heck of a lot went right last year.

That's not to say I'm in love with this team or the core ... I'm not. But I think a natural bounce back is expected from the chaos that went down last year.

Now without Giordano? That could be a step back.

And of course who knows what other changes are coming.

Based on your chaos and bounce back theory the Hawks would be early favorites to win the SC. And Dallas would be a contender. Vancouver likely didn't feel they caught a break last year either.

The Flames were 31st in Cap missing from line-up due to injuries. Every other team in the league had more missed games from more important players. Hard to track how many of the other teams players were playing below standard due to injuries like Monahan and Markstrom.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Flames were 2nd overall with David Rittich in goal and Bill Peters behind the bench the last full NHL season

they are not rebuilding this summer, save your breath

Once you come to terms with that you might as well go out swinging...honestly what is the worst that will happen? More players to trade at the deadline if it falls flat on its face

I get that "way as well go out swinging" attitude. It what most teams would do, and it's certainly Calgary's way.

San Jose certainly did that at a time I thought they should have given up, and they made the finals. Of course, they are now looking at an even longer rebuild. But it's hard to argue they made the wrong choice.

But Calgary does have some expiring assets. If Johnny is not signed to an extension, does he get traded? If he does, it's doubtful that it will improve the team for next year. Calgary is already likely risking losing Gio, arguably their best dman (although not the dman with the most trade value). Tkachuk bears watching due to his contract situation, and his value could decrease in a years time. Delaying the rebuild delays the years it takes to rebuild.

But I think until Calgary is basically 100% certain that it's over, they won't rebuild. Just like last time. And Calgary has some chance to be in contention this year.

[dino7c]

Rebuild doesn't guarantee anything either...32 team league and all

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Based on your chaos and bounce back theory the Hawks would be early favorites to win the SC. And Dallas would be a contender. Vancouver likely didn't feel they caught a break last year either.

The Flames were 31st in Cap missing from line-up due to injuries. Every other team in the league had more missed games from more important players. Hard to track how many of the other teams players were playing below standard due to injuries like Monahan and Markstrom.

Yeah no ... that's not my theory.

I mentioned some injuries sure, but the point of the post was that Sutter turned the team around and they were actually outplaying the opposition from that point on in numbers.

Vancouver and Chicago were terrible in underlying numbers ... there's not team played well but didn't get the bounces theory at all.

Vancouver
CF% 30th
xGF% 31st
HDCF% 31st

Chicago
CF% 29th
xGF% 30th
HDCF% 31st

Dallas though is a good example, they played better than their record for sure.

[cannon7]

Best top d-men pairing for Corsi is still only good for a 15-16-1 record. Or a 54 point pace last season, a point less than what the Flames actually got. Corsi numbers certainly don't tell the whole story and shouldn't be the basis for hockey decisions.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Best top d-men pairing for Corsi is still only good for a 15-16-1 record. Or a 54 point pace last season, a point less than what the Flames actually got. Corsi numbers certainly don't tell the whole story and shouldn't be the basis for hockey decisions.

Did Bingo or anyone say Corsi told the whole story, or that it should be the basis for decisions? It was only one of a number of stats he quoted, which all pointed clearly in the same direction.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames were 31st in Cap missing from line-up due to injuries. Every other team in the league had more missed games from more important players.

When your usual top centre is playing horribly because of injuries, but still playing, that doesn't show up as ‘cap missing due to injuries’. Missed games don't tell the story here.