[Trade] Duncan Keith (no retention) + Tim Soderlund to EDM for Caleb Jones + cond. 2022 2nd

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Lol

Felder quit the eagles in 2001.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Matata

Felder quit the eagles in 2001.

The blog mentions that and how it adds to the absurdity of the comparison.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Darkon

Well have no fear guys - one of the lads over on HF is involved in Real Estate (no, not Orange Julius) in Edmonton and is assuring the board that there are incredible things in store this summer both in regards to moving cap out and bringing in new players. All this news he has heard from rubbing shoulders with hockey players already buying property in Edmonton in prep to moving there. These moves will complete the picture that was started with Keith and everyone will be amazed at the brain trust that is Oiler management. They went on then to drop hints of both Taylor Hall and Hyman ending up in Edmonton on sweetheart deals. You heard it here first, well, ok I got it from Nostradamus on HF but whatever you get what I mean.

Sounds like Klowne hired that PR firm again to sift through HF threads and sprinkle kool-aid around to soothe the masses.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This is a solid take.

'Sub-Replacement-Level Randos" was my favourite line.

I nominate that for the E=NG thread's next iteration.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Locke

'Sub-Replacement-Level Randos" was my favourite line.

I nominate that for the E=NG thread's next iteration.

It also helps frame why our season last year sucked so much.

Leivo, Simon, Ritchie being mainstays in our top 9...that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

It's a broken ass thought process that you can do that and have any meaningful success.

With Pittsburgh, their success came well before they were shuffling sub-replacement-level randos like Simon on Crosby's wing. They had legit good players when they were winning Cups - so what hope in hell did we have with Simon? Or a broken Leivo?

You just can't win with scrubs.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Locke

'Sub-Replacement-Level Randos" was my favourite line.

I nominate that for the E=NG thread's next iteration.

I love this. I think mods should consider replacing poster tags......."Rookie" should become "Sub-Replacement-Level Rando".

I've been posting on CP for a decent time....but I would even happily replace my "Franchise Player" with this. Too funny.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It also helps frame why our season last year sucked so much.

Leivo, Simon, Ritchie being mainstays in our top 9...that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

It's a broken ass thought process that you can do that and have any meaningful success.

With Pittsburgh, their success came well before they were shuffling sub-replacement-level randos like Simon on Crosby's wing. They had legit good players when they were winning Cups - so what hope in hell did we have with Simon? Or a broken Leivo?

You just can't win with scrubs.

Honestly though ... did anyone expect that to go so badly?

With Nordstrom he was a clear cut fourth line guy that was good on the PK, and did just that.

Leivo was a pretty solid signing ... just didn't work out at all.

And Simon was supposed to be a plug and play winger that could go up and down the roster with a lack of finish. He was a ghost.

Rolled the dice and failed.

Pretty much nothing worked last year. Prized goalie got hurt. Monahan hurt. Added depth was a mess.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It also helps frame why our season last year sucked so much.

Leivo, Simon, Ritchie being mainstays in our top 9...that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

It's a broken ass thought process that you can do that and have any meaningful success.

With Pittsburgh, their success came well before they were shuffling sub-replacement-level randos like Simon on Crosby's wing. They had legit good players when they were winning Cups - so what hope in hell did we have with Simon? Or a broken Leivo?

You just can't win with scrubs.

What makes me furious thinking about is how clear and data driven the blog presentations are when making their points...the part that makes me rage is when I think through the Flames GMs over the years, and I don't think a single one of them puts a pack like that together when they make moves. Do I think some fans could do a better job surrounded by a cap expert and some structure...I do now.

I was at a private dinner with Craig Button a few years ago, and listening to him talk about the Savard trade was painful. I doubt heavily there was a PowerPoint going through the logic on that one, which is insane in a business the size of a sports team.

/Rant

[djsFlames]

I'm excited to see this and the poor cap structuring sewer their next season, and McDavid laughing at the pathetic lines they fill out this turd of a roster with.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

What makes me furious thinking about is how clear and data driven the blog presentations are when making their points...the part that makes me rage is when I think through the Flames GMs over the years, and I don't think a single one of them puts a pack like that together when they make moves. Do I think some fans could do a better job surrounded by a cap expert and some structure...I do now.

I was at a private dinner with Craig Button a few years ago, and listening to him talk about the Savard trade was painful. I doubt heavily there was a PowerPoint going through the logic on that one, which is insane in a business the size of a sports team.

/Rant

What did he say about the Savard trade? Didn't have a handle on the player's projection? No data on the Russian they acquired?

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What did he say about the Savard trade? Didn't have a handle on the player's projection? No data on the Russian they acquired?

The dinner would have been 10yrs+ now so testing my memory...but the question from the table was what was the move he regretted the most. He didn't even pause, he instantly said the Savard trade, I thought he might go with the St Louis situation. Anyway he talked about being a first time GM, the situation with the coach, and if he had to do it again he wouldn't do it. After he stopped speaking, I sent a text to a friend telling him he was right about that trade and I was wrong, because I had defended Button's position on it for years at that point.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Does Armani have a line of sweatpants?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Does Armani have a line of sweatpants?

yes they do

https://www.armani.com/ca/armanicom/...%3A%2232%22%7D

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly though ... did anyone expect that to go so badly?

With Nordstrom he was a clear cut fourth line guy that was good on the PK, and did just that.

Leivo was a pretty solid signing ... just didn't work out at all.

And Simon was supposed to be a plug and play winger that could go up and down the roster with a lack of finish. He was a ghost.

Rolled the dice and failed.

Pretty much nothing worked last year. Prized goalie got hurt. Monahan hurt. Added depth was a mess.

I think the key is they addressed the wrong areas, focus was depth lines

where the holes are within the top 2 lines (i.e. wingers)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by flambers

I think the key is they addressed the wrong areas, focus was depth lines

where the holes are within the top 2 lines (i.e. wingers)

Holes were on RW, RD, and in goal, and there were hardly any good right wingers on the market. So they got the best goalie and best RD available, but made the other hole bigger by moving their only good RW to C. It was an appalling unforced error.

Monahan–Backlund–Bennett–Ryan would have been quite decent down the middle. Lindholm–Mangiapane–Dube–Replacement Level Rando would have been acceptable on the right side. The team just could not afford to promote R. L. Rando to the top six and add his twin brother to the roster. And Bennett was a washout at right wing.

Combine that with a coach who ran slow practices and a schedule that allowed far too few of those, and you have a recipe for a totally lost season.

[browna]

^
Roster or not (though I suspect the roster would've been slightly different had this occured), the more major miscalculation by Treliving last offseason was to ultimately listen to the players fawn over the pushover of a coach in Ward.

I really think Treliving wanted a change and wanted Sutter, but he listened to the players who liked music at practice, soccer games at the end of practice, and that Ward didn't yell at them.

Same roster with Sutter from the start of the season, and the Flames accumulate enough points to make it in over MTL, no question. Not necessarily a fluke run to the finals, but also not as grim as it appears by not making it.

With the other changes he would've had implemented before the first puck drop, it would have been a much different feel to the team.

Doesn't matter now.
Simon was the only disappointing player from that group. Leivo and Nordstrom had more defined roles when Sutter came in, and their improved play showed what a little direction and firm expectations can do for a player.

Simon was billed as "he played with Crosby" magic bean sell job but turned out to be a pile of crap.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by browna

I really think Treliving wanted a change and wanted Sutter, but he listened to the players who liked music at practice, soccer games at the end of practice, and that Ward didn't yell at them.

I'm not at all sure Sutter was willing to come out of retirement at that point. Wasn't there some report or rumour that a team approached him before the season and he said no?

Keeping the wrong coach until the right coach becomes available is probably a better move than replacing one wrong coach with another. (Provided, of course, that we're talking about months and not years.)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

The dinner would have been 10yrs+ now so testing my memory...but the question from the table was what was the move he regretted the most. He didn't even pause, he instantly said the Savard trade, I thought he might go with the St Louis situation. Anyway he talked about being a first time GM, the situation with the coach, and if he had to do it again he wouldn't do it. After he stopped speaking, I sent a text to a friend telling him he was right about that trade and I was wrong, because I had defended Button's position on it for years at that point.

If Gilbert was still coaching in the NHL these days, he probably would have been outed as one the worst bully coaches in the league. He was such a meathead the way he laid into Savard. Button should be ashamed of himself after letting that fly and then initially being to cowardly to just can him.

[CASe333]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly though ... did anyone expect that to go so badly?

With Nordstrom he was a clear cut fourth line guy that was good on the PK, and did just that.

Leivo was a pretty solid signing ... just didn't work out at all.

And Simon was supposed to be a plug and play winger that could go up and down the roster with a lack of finish. He was a ghost.

Rolled the dice and failed.

Pretty much nothing worked last year. Prized goalie got hurt. Monahan hurt. Added depth was a mess.

Instead of bringing in Leivo and Simons I wish they would have rolled the dice within their system. It costs so little to promote within and if it fails there always chances to pickup players like Leivo. I dunno but I wish we played our draft picks move vs the past history.

[Boreal]

https://www.tsn.ca/travis-yost-dunca...hing-1.1668231

Even lower-tier players like Jordie Benn (age 33, coming off a $2-million dollar per-year contract) and Alec Martinez (age 33, coming off a $4-million dollar per-year contract) offer intriguing alternatives, and likely at a lower risk.
Signing one or more of these players may have caused another series of moves to become compliant for the expansion draft, but it also would have likely accomplished the most important thing – adding value to the lineup and improving the roster. And if nothing else, the added presence of players like Yandle and Suter readily available in free agency should have depressed the trade price of a player like Keith.
Hockey is a lot like everything else. Timing is everything. If Keith does not pan out as Edmonton anticipates, the cadence of how the Oilers’ off-season moves played out will be scrutinized in even finer detail.