Ongoing YYCCC (Chu + Farkas) Transgressions Threat

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by timun

No one is seriously proposing that parking on residential streets will require said residents to pay for it. I have no idea what wingnut source you heard this from.

It's a red herring; it's alarmist bull####.

If said residents have made it so that their neighborhood is permit-parking only, then they SHOULD be paying (and through the nose, IMO) for their parking permits.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by timun

No one is seriously proposing that parking on residential streets will require said residents to pay for it. I have no idea what wingnut source you heard this from.

It's a red herring; it's alarmist bull####.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/committee...gary-1.5154307

You're right. It's not being proposed. It's already happening.

CALGARY -- Calgarians could soon be charged for street parking in residential areas near their homes.
A city commitee voted 5-4 Wednesday in favour of a proposal which says residents should be charged on a sliding scale between $52 and $125 per year.

[81MC]

I think that goes out the window with the city removing minimum parking requirements for commercial spaces and high density development. I don’t believe it’s fair to allow commercial developers to rely on street parking and then tell the neighbouring community residents to buck up.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

My folks started complaining about the way the city was being run a week ago. I asked where else they would find an Economist 10 top city in the world with low taxes, excellent services, very little gridlock, and clean well managed facilities? Crickets.

Property taxes in Calgary are dirt cheap, sorry it clashes with your reality, but its true. The city is well managed, essentially free of real corruption and the government is responsive to the citizens.

I agree that Calgary is a fantastic place to live and property taxes are low relative to many other jurisdictions. However, there is so much room for improvement. They do a lot of things wrong and waste a lot of money. Property taxes could be even lower.

[timun]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/committee...gary-1.5154307

You're right. It's not being proposed. It's already happening.

That's for PERMIT parking, you mook. The permit system is for the exclusivity of not allowing anyone else to park on their street. And yeah, residents should have to pay for that, it's bull#### that they've been given two free passes. Every house has off-street parking; if they don't want to participate in the permit system they don't have to.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by timun

That's for PERMIT parking, you mook. The permit system is for the exclusivity of not allowing anyone else to park on their street. And yeah, residents should have to pay for that, it's bull#### that they've been given two free passes. Every house has off-street parking; if they don't want to participate in the permit system they don't have to.

What a weird response. The entire inner city is largely permit parking. I was assuming that's what he meant, and I assume lots of others here did too. Did you seriously think the topic was about the City proposing that people in Tuscany pay for street parking?

[corporatejay]

The only reason Tuscany isn't permit parking is because no one wants to go to Tuscany except people who live there. Don't punish people in the inner city because their communities aren't undesirable. They already pay a disproportionate amount of property tax.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Property taxes in Calgary are dirt cheap, sorry it clashes with your reality, but its true. The city is well managed, essentially free of real corruption and the government is responsive to the citizens.

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I agree that Calgary is a fantastic place to live and property taxes are low relative to many other jurisdictions. However, there is so much room for improvement. They do a lot of things wrong and waste a lot of money. Property taxes could be even lower.

Cheap/lower compared to where?

Calgary's property taxes are higher than property taxes for an equivalently priced house in Toronto and Vancouver (and Vancouver suburbs such as Burnaby and Richmond). A $900,000 residential assessment in Calgary will run you just north of $6,700. Same priced house is ~$5,400 in Toronto, and ~$2,600 in Vancouver (but hey, cheaper than Edmonton where that will set you back ~$8,400).

Obviously, there are numerous other factors that go into the cost of home ownership and taxes (Alberta's absence of a land transfer tax, the overall average house prices in jurisdictions generally leading to higher mill rates the lower the average price, etc.) On a pure question of whether property taxes themselves are dirt cheap, it's not wholly accurate to say that if we are being compared to other major cities in Canada.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/committee...gary-1.5154307

You're right. It's not being proposed. It's already happening.

Yup, alarmist bull#### with quotes from the king alarmist himself.

Here's a more-detailed story about what was being proposed: https://globalnews.ca/news/7410473/c...g-permit-fees/

Here's what Council actually passed and will come into effect in 2023: https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ace-until-2023

In an 8-6 vote late Monday night, council endorsed a fee structure that would offer the first resident parking permit for free and charge $15 for any additional permits, including visitor permits. But that system won’t take effect for two more years and, before it does, council will have another conversation about parking fees as part of the next four-year budget.

No one has ever proposed charging for residential street parking. What they did propose (and will implement but at a much lower rate) was a cost-recovery plan where those people who live on streets that require residential and visitor permits would/will pay to register their vehicles with the system.

What's wrong with that? Why should the vast majority of tax payers, who don't live in a permit-only zone be subsidizing the small minority who do?

Here's the map of every residential parking zone in the city: https://maps.calgary.ca/CalgaryParking/ Unless you live close to downtown, a hospital, or a C-Train station, it's not even something that affects you.

Even that map doesn't paint an accurate picture, because many of the streets within each colored zone don't have any restrictions on them.


Also, if you don't want to pay it, get together with your neighbours and have the permit-only parking removed from your street.

[corporatejay]

So again. I didn't have to pay for parking in front of my house before. And now I do. I'm paying for no increase in the quality.of service. Why should I be okay with that? The reason those zones exist is because the rest of the city would abuse the parking in the area due to services being used by the rest of the city.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by getbak

No one has ever proposed charging for residential street parking. What they did propose (and will implement but at a much lower rate) was a cost-recovery plan where those people who live on streets that require residential and visitor permits would/will pay to register their vehicles with the system.

Cost recovery kinda sounds like people who have been parking their cars in front of their houses for free now have to pay. For residential parking. Which is charging for residential street parking.

Sure, it's for parking in permitted zones of residential street parking if you happen to live in the zone, but that's still charging for residential street parking.

If your argument is that it's fine to charge people living inner city on streets that are permit only for residential street parking, that's fine. Everyone entitled to an opinion on charging for residential street parking. But it's still charging for residential street parking.

[CliffFletcher]

nm

[81MC]

Originally Posted by morgin

Cheap/lower compared to where?

Calgary's property taxes are higher than property taxes for an equivalently priced house in Toronto and Vancouver (and Vancouver suburbs such as Burnaby and Richmond). A $900,000 residential assessment in Calgary will run you just north of $6,700. Same priced house is ~$5,400 in Toronto, and ~$2,600 in Vancouver (but hey, cheaper than Edmonton where that will set you back ~$8,400).

Obviously, there are numerous other factors that go into the cost of home ownership and taxes (Alberta's absence of a land transfer tax, the overall average house prices in jurisdictions generally leading to higher mill rates the lower the average price, etc.) On a pure question of whether property taxes themselves are dirt cheap, it's not wholly accurate to say that if we are being compared to other major cities in Canada.

Average home price:
Fraser Valley - $945 000
Greater Toronto - $968 000
Calgary - $518 000

If you have an average single family home in Calgary, you will be paying significantly less in property tax than if you have an average single family home in Toronto. Likewise with commercial property. Vancouver enjoys extremely low rates, thanks to several factors including their sky high property value. Throw in multiple municipalities in relatively small geographical areas, a non-existent snow removal budget, and a questionable lack of commitment to tackling a housing crisis, and sure the tax rate is low. But a paper napkin comparison in like-for-like houses tells you that you’ll actually pay more dollars in Vancouver.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Average home price:
Fraser Valley - $945 000
Greater Toronto - $968 000
Calgary - $518 000

If you have an average single family home in Calgary, you will be paying significantly less in property tax than if you have an average single family home in Toronto. Likewise with commercial property. Vancouver enjoys extremely low rates, thanks to several factors including their sky high property value. Throw in multiple municipalities in relatively small geographical areas, a non-existent snow removal budget, and a questionable lack of commitment to tackling a housing crisis, and sure the tax rate is low. But a paper napkin comparison in like-for-like houses tells you that you’ll actually pay more dollars in Vancouver.

You can't be serious?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

So again. I didn't have to pay for parking in front of my house before. And now I do. I'm paying for no increase in the quality.of service. Why should I be okay with that? The reason those zones exist is because the rest of the city would abuse the parking in the area due to services being used by the rest of the city.

Why should I be okay with subsidizing your permit? It's a system that benefits only you and your neighbours and inconveniences everyone else. I gain nothing from it, so why should my taxes go to subsidize it?

Also, how does someone "abuse" street parking? They put their vehicle in an open spot on the street that happens to be in front of someone's house, so the person who lives in that house has to park somewhere else. It's a minor inconvenience. It's not abuse.



When people keep demanding lower taxes, the end result is that you either lose services that those taxes paid for or you get user fees to keep those services.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by getbak

why should i be okay with subsidizing your permit? It's a system that benefits only you and your neighbours and inconveniences everyone else. I gain nothing from it, so why should my taxes go to subsidize it?

Also, how does someone "abuse" street parking? They put their vehicle in an open spot on the street that happens to be in front of someone's house, so the person who lives in that house has to park somewhere else. It's a minor inconvenience. It's not abuse.



when people keep demanding lower taxes, the end result is that you either lose services that those taxes paid for or you get user fees to keep those services.

Did you read how this started? That's literally what I said. City is running low on revenue. Things are going to cost money. That's going to piss people off. Somehow me saying that became controversial.

Like Morgin said. We can debate whether people should pay for residential parking, but the city is starting to make people pay for residential parking.

[burn_this_city]

People who park on the street 100% of the time should pay for the privilege. Your private vehicle consumes public space that the taxpayers maintain. No one is paving my driveway when it inevitably falls into disrepair, same goes for the garage. You don't own the road and your property tax contribution is irrelevant. Everyone loves cutting entitlements, until its theirs.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

People who park on the street 100% of the time should pay for the privilege. Your private vehicle consumes public space that the taxpayers maintain. No one is paving my driveway when it inevitably falls into disrepair, same goes for the garage. You don't own the road and your property tax contribution is irrelevant. Everyone loves cutting entitlements, until its theirs.

Just to clarify. You want people who live in Evergreen to pay for parking on their street? Why? Does it cost more money to maintain the road if people park on it v. Just driving on it?

[morgin]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Average home price:
Fraser Valley - $945 000
Greater Toronto - $968 000
Calgary - $518 000

If you have an average single family home in Calgary, you will be paying significantly less in property tax than if you have an average single family home in Toronto. Likewise with commercial property. Vancouver enjoys extremely low rates, thanks to several factors including their sky high property value. Throw in multiple municipalities in relatively small geographical areas, a non-existent snow removal budget, and a questionable lack of commitment to tackling a housing crisis, and sure the tax rate is low. But a paper napkin comparison in like-for-like houses tells you that you’ll actually pay more dollars in Vancouver.

Yeah, in the world where people's house budget significantly varies depending on where they live and people don't buy more house for the same budget in markets where housing is cheaper, I guess that's accurate.

Your average Calgary Puckian will own a nicer house in Calgary or Halifax than they would in Toronto or Vancouver (where they wouldn't own a house at all, they would own a condo), which is one of the perks of living in places with lower housing costs when otherwise cost of living is similar and salaries are similar.

If people wanna go around suggesting that property taxes are lower here if you spend significantly less on a house in Calgary to remain at the average single family home price, cool, but that argument or perk has very little relationship to what actual humans do. If I can afford to spend $968,000 in Toronto, I'm unlikely to come to Calgary and only spend $518,000. If someone wants to do that to prove the point that property taxes in Calgary are lower, go ahead I guess?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Just to clarify. You want people who live in Evergreen to pay for parking on their street? Why? Does it cost more money to maintain the road if people park on it v. Just driving on it?

There's a lot of junk filled garages in this city that would be emptied out if people had to pay to park their jalopy on the road. I do think its absurd you'd balk at paying a paltry amount to park your cars in a proverbial walled garden that the city tightly polices with signage and enforcement.