CP Flames 1st Round draft selection (Poll #3)

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I’ve heard this a few times. Can anyone clarify why this year’s pick would become the flames top prospect automatically? Zary was taken in a deep draft and was predicted to go much higher than he did (I think he was supposed to be gone by the 12th pick). This is a weaker draft in a year with a lot of unknowns.


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That's just my opinion. I dont think this draft is as weak as ppl think either. The fact that a lot of these guys were trending higher with a limited batch of information is telling. The only real weakness is the lack of a super prospect at the top.

It's a good draft, you're still getting a great player in the top 16. A player that would be a top player in the 1st in other drafts.

[dissentowner]

Who here remembers Trevor Kidd? The can't miss franchise changing goalie that was going to set us up for years after the Vernon era. How did that work out?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Who here remembers Trevor Kidd? The can't miss franchise changing goalie that was going to set us up for years after the Vernon era. How did that work out?

It's not really going to be and argument. Wallstedt won't be there for CGY to take anyways.

Besides if we want to play the Trevor Kidd game. The next goalie taken was Brodeur. So by this logic we should take Cossa!

[1qqaaz]

I would be very happy if the Flames got Cossa, but I wouldn't want him at #12.

So yeah, trade down like the Brodeur-Kidd trade, except the other way.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Taking a goalie in the 1st rnd is foolish, history has repeatedly shown this. The drafting has been good the past 6 years but let's not act like making poor decisions overall over the past 6 years has not been BT's MO. Can someone explain to me how wallstedt is a better prospect than Wolf? Is it because he is 3 inches taller?

History has shown it?
Like the four goalies who made the semi finals...all drafted in the first round
And yes size is one reason why wallstedt is a way better prospect

[Jiri Hrdina]

Here's a little more on recent goalies drafted in the first overall
Askarov (too soon to tell)
Knight (13th overall - tracking to be a starter)
Oettinger (26th overall - tracking to be a starter)
Samsonov (22nd overall - tracking to be a starter)
Vasilevsky (19th overall - hall of famer)
Jack Campbell (11th overall - not good value overall)
Chet Pickard (18th overall - bust)
Bernier (11th overall - not good value overall, similar to Campbell)
Carey Price (5th overall - hall of famer)

I think scouting of goalies has gotten a lot better. No question there is risk but Vasilvesky is a great example of picking a franchise potential goalie in a weak draft. Huge to their two cups.

EDIT: I took the above from an article so if there are missing ones - it isn't intentional)

[Eubee]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

History has shown it?
Like the four goalies who made the semi finals...all drafted in the first round
And yes size is one reason why wallstedt is a way better prospect

Hey let's take a goalie high in the first round. History has shown that THIS FRANCHISE is going to knock it put of the park when it comes to drafting and developing a high first round goalie pick. Goalies take longer to develop and are more of a wild card than other positions but because the Flames are so good at drafting and developing goalies, it makes sense to take one here.

I wish I could say this, and I'm not saying you are saying this. But the reality is that it's the opposite of the above. With the Flames, it's much more likely to be a Trevor Kidd/Brent Krahn type franchise altering pick. I don't know why but It just is.

It is like saying that the Flames will find some way to come out on the losing end of the Vancouver 4 game series to nowhere, but still make it look good and bring along some young players progress while doing it. I wish. I knew that the flames would 'step up' when the stakes are so low that the bar is on the ground, and hurt their draft standing in the process. That, as with a high first round goalie prospect, I get the strong feeling that I just know. Because history tells me.

[Samonadreau]

Picked Lucius last round. Changed my pick this round to Coronato.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Taking a goalie in the 1st rnd is foolish, history has repeatedly shown this. The drafting has been good the past 6 years but let's not act like making poor decisions overall over the past 6 years has not been BT's MO. Can someone explain to me how wallstedt is a better prospect than Wolf? Is it because he is 3 inches taller?

Well Treliving has never drafted a goaltender in the first round.

Wolf is an interesting prospect, but there's a reason he had a clipboard at both WJC's he attended ... the first rounder played ahead of him.

If the Flames think Wallstedt is the best player available, they take him.

If the don't they don't.

Hard to ignore the number of first round picks on goaltenders in this year's playoffs. All four semi final clubs had a first pick stopping pucks.

With any first round pick they have to get it right, they need assets. Don't care what position they play.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Who here remembers Trevor Kidd? The can't miss franchise changing goalie that was going to set us up for years after the Vernon era. How did that work out?

Yeah and we're in trouble because nothing has changed in Calgary since 1991 ... nothing. Same GM, same scouts, ... dang we're screwed!

Sarcasm aside, Kidd played ... he took over the number one spot in Calgary and had a decent career. that wasn't a complete whiff.

[Samonadreau]

Kidd wasn't a whiff it just stings a little more with the Brodeur factor.

Brent Krahn and Leland Irving on the other hand.... whiffs

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Taking a goalie in the 1st rnd is foolish, history has repeatedly shown this. The drafting has been good the past 6 years but let's not act like making poor decisions overall over the past 6 years has not been BT's MO. Can someone explain to me how wallstedt is a better prospect than Wolf? Is it because he is 3 inches taller?

Well that’s not accurate at all.

This guy did the math, like other positions there is no guarantee: https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/n...he-first-round

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Well that’s not accurate at all.

This guy did the math, like other positions there is no guarantee: https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/n...he-first-round

It's conclusion #2 (good goalies often get drafted in later rounds) and #3 (good goalies are often undrafted) that make me not want to burn a 1st rounder on a goalie, not the idea that goalies in the 1st round bust more than other players.

It just seems like a 1st rounder would be better if used on a skater, then draft more in later rounds.

[Skyceman]

Rather go with a skater then a goalie in the first round. Too hard to project.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Skyceman

Rather go with a skater then a goalie in the first round. Too hard to project.

This year the projections are super hard anyway, so the goalie disadvantage decreases.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

History has shown it?
Like the four goalies who made the semi finals...all drafted in the first round
And yes size is one reason why wallstedt is a way better prospect

Wallstedt is the youngest goalie to ever play in the SHL, which is still considered one of the top pro leagues on the planet, and he aquitted himself well as an 18 year old. He has athleticism, technique, and size-plus elite play tracking and awareness. There's not much doubt that he'll be a good NHLer. He's already playing against men, not juniors like other goalie prospects.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I went with the goalie ... which freaked me out.

It should, Wallstedt might turn out great if we draft him, but in all likelihood it would be for another team. History says it would be a wasted 1st round pick.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The draft is to find the BEST players that you can select at each pick. You are simply shooting yourself in the foot if you are even remotely interested in your positional strength organizationally (on the team or even through the prospect base). Sure, if you are looking at two (or more) prospects that are very closely rated by your scouts, then by all means pick the selection that fills the biggest need (and that in itself is a good move, as you probably can fit him in a position to succeed faster with less competition and higher quality of ice time). That's where it stops.


I think the Flames are 'good' to 'strong' in their organization when it comes to goaltending. Markstrom is here for 5 more seasons. I still believe Parsons can be that 'big money goalie' he seemed destined to become. Wolf has done nothing but exceed expectations and looks as good as you can hope for in a prospect that hasn't turned pro yet. Chechelev is tracking well also IMO. Zagidullin - I am not very high on, but I wouldn't say he is irrelevant or a lost cause - shows decently and still can make it. Altogether, I think it is a good group.


However, my target at 12 is Wallstedt, period. Why? I don't see any other prospect that is as 'elite' at his position left. I don't see franchise players. Lots of good players to be sure, but nothing 'franchise level'. Now, this is a weird draft given what has been going on in the world, and I would bet that there are going to be some franchise-level players being selected beyond round 1 (and there often is even in a normal year). I am merely saying that I believe Wallstedt to hold the highest likelihood of becoming a franchise-level player.


I believe the more franchise-level players a team drafts, the easier it is to 'win'. Let that player grow into your team and help you win, or you trade him if he is blocked. The value will be there to fill a hole to help your team win.


Pick the best player available, period. I think Wallstedt is looking like a franchise-level goalie, and I would be happy with that. I am not particularly worried about "The Flames can't draft goalies" or "Look what happened to Krahn, and Irving, and so and so". That's all irrelevant to me.



I was not high on Irving. Krahn got injured, from what I remember. Ortio was a 7th round pick and you can make an argument that the Flames got excellent value since he actually played some games. I was never very high on Gillies (I personally don't like blocking goalies much, and though his numbers were sparkling in the NCAA, Providence was a very good defensive team and I never saw him - in the limited number of games that I did watch - ever be a factor, like Parsons was in Junior). MacDonald seemed very athletic, but was never consistent even in junior. Brossoit I really liked, and he has turned into a pretty good backup. I posit that Calgary hasn't drafted enough top-end goalie talent in the past to definitively state that they suck at developing goalies.


Wallstedt should be the highest skilled player left at 12, and I doubt he is still there. I don't care if Calgary is organizationally strong or weak in goalies. I just subscribe to the idea of drafting the most talented and most likely players to succeed in the NHL in the future.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It should, Wallstedt might turn out great if we draft him, but in all likelihood it would be for another team. History says it would be a wasted 1st round pick.

Honestly don't get how so many literally just remove hope from the equation as a fan.

If you haven't had success, I wouldn't scrap the notion that things might go better in the future.

Is it fun to see things so negatively?

Just me though I guess.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly don't get how so many literally just remove hope from the equation as a fan.

If you haven't had success, I wouldn't scrap the notion that things might go better in the future.

Is it fun to see things so negatively?

Just me though I guess.

unfortunately I think it is a learned response from years as a flames fan. Every time hope returns to us (like the beginning of the 18-19 season...) the rug gets pulled out and our hopes get dashed (like everything since the 2019 ASG; listless playoff collapse, emerging chemistry issues in locker room, Bill Peters fiasco...)