[Rumour] Friedman: Flames have begun contract negotiations with Gaudreau - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Macho0978 · 07-10-2021, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

1. Is Johnny built for playoff hockey?
2. Does he elevate his game in the playoffs?
3. Does he have a killer instinct?

The answers to these questions make it abundantly clear what should be done with Johnny.

I agree unless Johnny does this team a favour and resigns for less than expected we should move on. People seem to only care about next year and forget how bad things looked when we traded iggy and jay bo and kipper retired. What did it take all of one season and we had monahan and Johnny and the team wasn’t great but they were fun to watch and there was hope moving forward. Gio also elevated to another level. If we trade Johnny it probably won’t be near as bad as that one season. If Tkachuk wants huge money move him too

Flamesfan05 · 07-10-2021, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

1. Is Johnny built for playoff hockey?
2. Does he elevate his game in the playoffs?
3. Does he have a killer instinct?

The answers to these questions make it abundantly clear what should be done with Johnny.

It’s not that simple. Unless there is an alternative, sign him or trade him instead of losing him for nothing.

Vansmack · 07-10-2021, 11:12 AM

I love that Johnny gets the all the blame. The flames top goalies during his career are Ramo, Hiller, Smith and Rittich. Markstrom intentionally omitted.

Flamesfan05 · 07-10-2021, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansmack

I love that Johnny gets the all the blame. The flames top goalies during his career are Ramo, Hiller, Smith and Rittich. Markstrom intentionally omitted.

You can include Markstrom. He was not any better last year

GioforPM · 07-10-2021, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansmack

I love that Johnny gets the all the blame. The flames top goalies during his career are Ramo, Hiller, Smith and Rittich. Markstrom intentionally omitted.

Gets “all the blame”? Hardly.

ricardodw · 07-10-2021, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

This may be an issue of hindsight bias?

There's a reason why many of the Flames players on the 2014-2017 team were out of the league 1-2 years after leaving the Flames. Many were fringe NHLers and just not very good at professional hockey:

Bouma, Jones, Glencross (later version), Colborne, Jooris, Bolig, and Stajan all featured heavily in the bottom and even middle six of the Flames in that error. They were all out of the league 1-2 years later. That 2014/15 team overperformed.

The defence in that playoff run also had Smid, Schlemko, Wideman (who had one good season for the team), and Russell.

The Flames current set of d-men is not only much deeper but has much more room for growth. The forward core is also much better. The issues with the Flames haven't been with the personal but with the coaching and team identity. The Flames roster issues going forward have to do with potentially the top two players both wanting to go to their respective hometown teams.

.

You are saying that Hanifin and Andersson have ever played to the level that Wideman, Russell Brodie and Engelland played to for in 2015??

There was cap room for all of Russell, Wideman and Engelland along with Gio and Brodie that disappeared in 2016.

What was supposed to happen was that Gio was supposed to carry someone other than Brodie on the top pairing. Monahan and Gaudreau were supposed to be like Kane and Toews and carry their own line but be awesome scary on the PP and when chasing a game.

On paper, the current team is the best it's been in a long time - that is just sad

Flamesfan05 · 07-10-2021, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You are saying that Hanifin and Andersson have ever played to the level that Wideman, Russell Brodie and Engelland played to for in 2015??

There was cap room for all of Russell, Wideman and Engelland along with Gio and Brodie that disappeared in 2016.

What was supposed to happen was that Gio was supposed to carry someone other than Brodie on the top pairing. Monahan and Gaudreau were supposed to be like Kane and Toews and carry their own line but be awesome scary on the PP and when chasing a game.

On paper, the current team is the best it's been in a long time - that is just sad

The current team defense is terrible. No number 1 dman, all terrible defensively except maybe Tanev. Non existing bottom 6 and no help from the farm. Top 6 talent is there but underperforming

TheScorpion · 07-10-2021, 11:47 AM

Giordano is still extremely good defensively and Hanifin took a big step forward in his own zone last year.

Flamesfan05 · 07-10-2021, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Giordano is still extremely good defensively and Hanifin took a big step forward in his own zone last year.

Lol Gio and Andersson were comedy

TheScorpion · 07-10-2021, 11:54 AM

Andersson was one of the worst defensive players in the NHL last season.

Jiri Hrdina · 07-10-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vansmack

I love that Johnny gets the all the blame. The flames top goalies during his career are Ramo, Hiller, Smith and Rittich. Markstrom intentionally omitted.

What's the excuse for him not producing 5 on 5? That has nothing to do with the goalie.

DeluxeMoustache · 07-10-2021, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What's the excuse for him not producing 5 on 5? That has nothing to do with the goalie.

Coaches, D centers and other wingers. Johnny wasn’t the only underachiever. That guy should have covered all the bases and outlined every flaw with the team. Also it starts at the top. That oughta do it

Calgary4LIfe · 07-10-2021, 01:04 PM

I thought during that tough stretch, Johnny was the only forward that was really producing and looking dangerous. Monahan was MIA (and injury is a legitimate excuse IMO), but Tkachuk wasn't doing anything, and even Lindholm was fairly invisible. Johnny was the only legitimate threat that the Flames had until finally Lindholm - and then Tkachuk - started to produce.

Savvy27 · 07-10-2021, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What's the excuse for him not producing 5 on 5? That has nothing to do with the goalie.

I don't agree with the 5v5 criticism. He's still a very good producer even if you focus on 5v5.

At 6.75M AAV he has 142 even strength points in 208 games over the past 3 seasons.
He averages under 19:12 minutes of ice time.
He's scoring at a 2.27 points/60 of even strength ice time (35th in the NHL).

Compare that to Mitch Marner 10.9M AAV
2.72 p/60 7th
163 EVP in 196 games
21:04 average ice time

Pastrnak 6.66M
2.67 p/60 (10th)
139 in 184 games
19:23 toi

Johnny is a bit behind other elite wingers 5v5 but not by all that much. Marner plays with Matthews and Hymen or Tavares. Pasta plays with Marchand and Bergeron. Johnny played with Lindholm and Monahan at best and in the past 2 seasons he has been anchored with Robinson, Ritchie, and Simon.

Even if you want to look at only the past 2 seasons Johnny is tied with Jack Eichel at even strength production at 1.87/60... not great but not awful considering they have been down years with coaching changes.

For the record he was back up to 1.90 under Sutter and at an impressive 2.60 p/60 at 5v5 in the 12 game window where he was playing with Lindholm and Tkachuk (I excluded the final 4 games vs Vancouver).

This team gets worse fast without Gaudreau. With Sutter's coaching improving the goals against they are going to need him at 5v5 and on the PP to win those tight games.

Burning Beard · 07-10-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

maybe Tanev.

Bahahahahahaha jeeze louise man.

ricardodw · 07-10-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The current team defense is terrible. No number 1 dman, all terrible defensively except maybe Tanev. Non existing bottom 6 and no help from the farm. Top 6 talent is there but underperforming

The Tanev acquisition from Vancouver was an eye opener. On Vancouver he was a middle of the pack Elder, Hughes Myers, okay but injured a lot. He wasn't worth 4x4 to the Canucks and they went 6x4 for Myers.

He came to Calgary and was likely #1

Jiri Hrdina · 07-10-2021, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I don't agree with the 5v5 criticism. He's still a very good producer even if you focus on 5v5.
.

For much of the year he wasn't. On April 27th he 139th in even strength scoring. Had a good end to the season though to move up those ranks.

dissentowner · 07-10-2021, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

1. Is Johnny built for playoff hockey?
2. Does he elevate his game in the playoffs?
3. Does he have a killer instinct?

The answers to these questions make it abundantly clear what should be done with Johnny.

Before coming to Calgary all Johnny Gaudreau has done is put up big performances in big games his whole life. His junior career? Dominant. His college career? Dominant. The world Juniors? Dominant. Team North America? Dominant. Gaudreau is not the problem.

dissentowner · 07-10-2021, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For much of the year he wasn't. On April 27th he 139th in even strength scoring. Had a good end to the season though to move up those ranks.

Saddled with a broken Monahan and Ritchie. Nobody is putting up good numbers with those guys.

MrMike · 07-10-2021, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Tanev acquisition from Vancouver was an eye opener. On Vancouver he was a middle of the pack Elder, Hughes Myers, okay but injured a lot. He wasn't worth 4x4 to the Canucks and they went 6x4 for Myers.

He came to Calgary and was likely #1

Vancouver and Hughes severely missed Tanev. Bet Benning wishes he resigned Tanev instead of acquiring Shmidt