[Rumour] Tarasenko has requested a trade and the Blues interest in Tkachuk

[dammage79]

And there's not much term left on Tarasenkos contract so it's not really a boat anchor in the traditional sense. He could be dealt with retention and still get a decent return if things go badly. 3.5m tarasenko with a year left after this season. Would still fetch a 1st IMO.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by dammage79

And there's not much term left on Tarasenkos contract so it's not really a boat anchor in the traditional sense. He could be dealt with retention and still get a decent return if things go badly. 3.5m tarasenko with a year left after this season. Would still fetch a 1st IMO.

He has two years left on his contract.

With a flat cap, Flames should stay away

To much risk

I would think, Blues will have a tough time trading him.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree no one expected much out of Lucic. But Neal? Everyone expected 20 goals at a minimum because that’s what he scored every prior year.

When he signed sure. But after 1 year it was 100 percent clear his contract was a boat anchor. At that point he was definitely in the boat anchor category for contracts

Same with lucic. There was more reason for optimism when he first signed with the oilers. Shortly after it was clear it was a boat anchor

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

But of all the boat anchor deals tarasenko has potential to be a top end player. What if he is healthy and plays well? Boat anchor deals like Neal or lucic aren’t all equal in my eyes. There is still potential that tarasenko is still a very good player where we all knew we weren’t getting much more than what we are getting out of lucic.

Are we competing this year with Johnny and Tkachuk? Sure I’d love to snag turcotte or cozens type prospects but you continue to fail to acknowledge that at least a team like Buffalo probably can’t sign Tkachuk similar to us. I’m sure doughty would love adding Tkachuk to the kings. Our options could be very limited on who wants him

Every single team in the league would have some level of interest in Tkachuk.

I just hate the notion that our best young player and arguably most valuable asset is bringing back similar aged forwards with modest upside and a former superstar sniper who has had multiple injuries that impact his ability to shoot like he used to. The nature of the injuries Tarasenko has had result in huge red flags.

If we are talking Monahan for Tarasenko that makes some sense. 2 players that have had a dip in production and injuries over the last couple years. Even then Monahan has scored significantly more points over the last 3 years and cheaper so the Blues retain or add to close that deal.

I do think the Flames will be significantly better next year. I feel like Ward did a ton of damage with his short stint with the interim tag removed. Sutter had this team playing better after that brutal 9 game stretch where they couldn’t score a goal to save their lives.

I hope the organization makes significant change but I am not on the same page with the posters who took this past season as a sign of things to come. Flames still make the playoffs in the traditional pacific this year and they are more built for the playoffs than they were in the past with a high end goalie and proven coach who has won 17 playoff series behind the bench and multiple cups.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

When he signed sure. But after 1 year it was 100 percent clear his contract was a boat anchor. At that point he was definitely in the boat anchor category for contracts

Same with lucic. There was more reason for optimism when he first signed with the oilers. Shortly after it was clear it was a boat anchor

Well, isn’t that sorta the point? We’d expect more out of Tarasenko too.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, isn’t that sorta the point? We’d expect more out of Tarasenko too.

So you can guarantee tarasenko is done? He will be a 4th line healthy scratch type player for the next 2 years? That’s bold statement. Can’t wait to see how his season goes next year

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So you can guarantee tarasenko is done? He will be a 4th line healthy scratch type player for the next 2 years? That’s bold statement. Can’t wait to see how his season goes next year

When you are trading a 23 year old top winger for him expectations are we get a first line right wing back. 4th line/healthy scratch would be beyond disastrous and would make Forsberg for Erat seem like a fair trade.

The trade has mild potential to work out for the Flames but immense potential to blow up in their face and be one of those deals like Gilmour that are discussed 30 years later

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Every single team in the league would have some level of interest in Tkachuk.

I just hate the notion that our best young player and arguably most valuable asset is bringing back similar aged forwards with modest upside and a former superstar sniper who has had multiple injuries that impact his ability to shoot like he used to. The nature of the injuries Tarasenko has had result in huge red flags.

If we are talking Monahan for Tarasenko that makes some sense. 2 players that have had a dip in production and injuries over the last couple years. Even then Monahan has scored significantly more points over the last 3 years and cheaper so the Blues retain or add to close that deal.

I do think the Flames will be significantly better next year. I feel like Ward did a ton of damage with his short stint with the interim tag removed. Sutter had this team playing better after that brutal 9 game stretch where they couldn’t score a goal to save their lives.

I hope the organization makes significant change but I am not on the same page with the posters who took this past season as a sign of things to come. Flames still make the playoffs in the traditional pacific this year and they are more built for the playoffs than they were in the past with a high end goalie and proven coach who has won 17 playoff series behind the bench and multiple cups.

Get a top 10 protected first in 22 from St louis that transfer to 23 if St. Louis gets to keep it. Then it’s not lottery protected in 23. Could be a big return

The Blues have major cap issues. They already are on the decline so if we can get a non lottery protected first in 23 we could be getting someone real good

The Flames are in trouble with all these rumours anyways so time to look at the next 2 drafts

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The Flames are in trouble with all these rumours anyways so time to look at the next 2 drafts

Could you elaborate on this? I genuinely can't tell if you are wildly overreacting to rumours or if you just find it interesting for conversation.

Tarasenko is not a player that I would even consider trading Tkachuk for. I would much rather see if the Flames have a good year and a playoff run and get a better sense of what it would take to re-sign our awesome young player than to panic now and trade him because salary negotiations might be tough.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So you can guarantee tarasenko is done? He will be a 4th line healthy scratch type player for the next 2 years? That’s bold statement. Can’t wait to see how his season goes next year

His last successful NHL season was more than 2 calendar years ago and since then, he suffered performance altering injuries and has barely played. He will be 30 before the midpoint of next season and has a cap hit of $7.5 million for the next 2 seasons.

He is currently worth less in a trade than Lucic IMO. If he were a free agent, he would likely get a one-year "show me" deal for probably around $2 million plus performance bonuses.

The Blues are going to have to add at least a 1st rounder with him just to get a team to take him for free. If we were to trade them Tkachuk in part of the deal, it would cost them a hell of a lot more. More than they could realistically offer. Keep in mind that the team acquiring him is giving up a huge opportunity cost to not spend that money elsewhere.

I could be wrong and some sucker might come along and actually give them a young player with similar offensive upside for Tarasenko, but I pray it's not the Flames.

Tkachuk's PPG average is 0.80 and Tarasenko's in 0.83. We are not talking about a huge difference. Tkachuk is young and has no significant injury history. Both are possibly UFA after 2 years, so that is a wash. Even if Tarasenko was perfectly healthy, I don't think their value would be extraordinarily different.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

His last successful NHL season was more than 2 calendar years ago and since then, he suffered performance altering injuries and has barely played. He will be 30 before the midpoint of next season and has a cap hit of $7.5 million for the next 2 seasons.

He is currently worth less in a trade than Lucic IMO. If he were a free agent, he would likely get a one-year "show me" deal for probably around $2 million plus performance bonuses.

The Blues are going to have to add at least a 1st rounder with him just to get a team to take him for free. If we were to trade them Tkachuk in part of the deal, it would cost them a hell of a lot more. More than they could realistically offer. Keep in mind that the team acquiring him is giving up a huge opportunity cost to not spend that money elsewhere.

I could be wrong and some sucker might come along and actually give them a young player with similar offensive upside for Tarasenko, but I pray it's not the Flames.

Tkachuk's PPG average is 0.80 and Tarasenko's in 0.83. We are not talking about a huge difference. Tkachuk is young and has no significant injury history. Both are possibly UFA after 2 years, so that is a wash. Even if Tarasenko was perfectly healthy, I don't think their value would be extraordinarily different.

well lets not go overboard here

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So you can guarantee tarasenko is done? He will be a 4th line healthy scratch type player for the next 2 years? That’s bold statement. Can’t wait to see how his season goes next year

No I can’t, just like no one was guaranteeing Neal was done. That’s my point. In fact, there’s a whole lot more evidence that Tarasenko is done versus Neal.

[stang]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

For everyone using the $9M qualifying offer as an argument, you are simply wrong. A team can choose team elected arbitration instead of submitting a QO to a player like Tkachuk. In that case he will be awarded at least 85% of his previous year’s salary. For Tkachuk it was something like $7.6M, I can’t remember.

I am willing to bet anyone that Tkachuk won’t get a $9M QO, unless he has a career year this season. I think it is far more likely he will come in under or around $8M if it is a one year deal.

Can you show me where you found this? I am 85% sure that the team can only elect arbitration if they have sent the QO and the player hasn’t signed. If the team doesn’t extend the QO the player becomes a FA.

IMO there is no way he’s going to Arbitration.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Could you elaborate on this? I genuinely can't tell if you are wildly overreacting to rumours or if you just find it interesting for conversation.

Tarasenko is not a player that I would even consider trading Tkachuk for. I would much rather see if the Flames have a good year and a playoff run and get a better sense of what it would take to re-sign our awesome young player than to panic now and trade him because salary negotiations might be tough.

Sure. The Flames were a bottom 3rd of the league team with arguably their best player being a UFA after next year. Even if he stays odds are it’s going to be a contract with loads of risk or a much higher cap hit. If the Flames decided to move on from Johnny they might be ok because of guys like Tkachuk.

Now rumours that I guess may not be true surface our most valuable asset is wanting out. You don’t think this hurts this franchise that already is struggling to turn from a bubble playoff team to a true contender.

Add to this a very weak prospect pool and aging players like gio backlund markstrom and tanev and lucic contract with 2 years left. This team couldn’t afford getting a huge blow that a guy like Tkachuk wants out. Maybe these rumours aren’t true but I believe they need to rebuild before this so adding this to the mix makes it even more necessary they need to rebuild. I don’t believe if he demands a trade we will get fair value and I think if he does get traded Johnny may not stay either

I also think monahan potentially getting traded might factor in to Johnny staying.

How is an already bad team getting better if we trade all 3 and probably get lessor players and picks back making this team better?

Time to rebuild

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by stang

Can you show me where you found this? I am 85% sure that the team can only elect arbitration if they have sent the QO and the player hasn’t signed. If the team doesn’t extend the QO the player becomes a FA.

IMO there is no way he’s going to Arbitration.

My understanding is that the first window for a team to elect taking a player to arbitration occurs before the deadline for the QO so, no, it would mean that they don't then need to extend the QO. Only if they don't elect arbitration would the QO come into play.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by stang

Can you show me where you found this? I am 85% sure that the team can only elect arbitration if they have sent the QO and the player hasn’t signed. If the team doesn’t extend the QO the player becomes a FA.

IMO there is no way he’s going to Arbitration.

Originally Posted by The Cobra

My understanding is that the first window for a team to elect taking a player to arbitration occurs before the deadline for the QO so, no, it would mean that they don't then need to extend the QO. Only if they don't elect arbitration would the QO come into play.

The team can make a decision to use arbitration prior to extension of the qualifying offer. This must be done in writing no later than 48 hours after the Stanley Cup is awarded. Otherwise, the team must tender a qualifying offer and then elect to go to arbitration if the player elects to NOT sign the offer. If they use the former they are definitely poisoning the pool. In this case, it doesn't matter what they do as Tkachuk will take the ruling, sign the one year contract, and be a UFA at its completion. The Flames would only guarantee Tkachuk walks by employing either of these mechanisms.

[Hackey]

Agree that Monahan in a Tarasenko deal is worth a look. Tkachuk makes absolutely no sense.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Sure. The Flames were a bottom 3rd of the league team with arguably their best player being a UFA after next year. Even if he stays odds are it’s going to be a contract with loads of risk or a much higher cap hit. If the Flames decided to move on from Johnny they might be ok because of guys like Tkachuk.

Now rumours that I guess may not be true surface our most valuable asset is wanting out. You don’t think this hurts this franchise that already is struggling to turn from a bubble playoff team to a true contender.

Add to this a very weak prospect pool and aging players like gio backlund markstrom and tanev and lucic contract with 2 years left. This team couldn’t afford getting a huge blow that a guy like Tkachuk wants out. Maybe these rumours aren’t true but I believe they need to rebuild before this so adding this to the mix makes it even more necessary they need to rebuild. I don’t believe if he demands a trade we will get fair value and I think if he does get traded Johnny may not stay either

I also think monahan potentially getting traded might factor in to Johnny staying.

How is an already bad team getting better if we trade all 3 and probably get lessor players and picks back making this team better?

Time to rebuild

Ignoring your concerns (which are overblown), let's focus on the bolded... you believe the Flames need to rebuild, and yet you are proposing that we trade our most valuable under-25 asset for an injury-riddled 30 year old.

And you can't understand why everyone thinks your proposal is terrible?

[gilligans_off]

If they could make it work, he’d be the best RW since Iggy IMO. If the price is right, I’d be willing to try it. Not sure about letting MT go though.

[stang]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

My understanding is that the first window for a team to elect taking a player to arbitration occurs before the deadline for the QO so, no, it would mean that they don't then need to extend the QO. Only if they don't elect arbitration would the QO come into play.

You’re correct. Learn something new everyday