Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[getbak]

If they do the groundbreaking next spring instead of this summer, that would put them on a similar timeline as what Edmonton had (groundbreaking in March 2014 open in September 2016).

[Buff]

Originally Posted by CgyFlamesftw

Can confirm, I as well work for one of the GC’s. It’s all but sealed just few minor details. And the construction end date is staying the same. 6 months behind schedule however so that will be a challenge.

[The Yen Man]

I just want to see the concept layout and plans. Is there a timeline of when that might be released to the public?

Maybe it'll coincide with also introducing Jack Eichel as a Flame later this month :-P.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Gundo

I was in a construction meeting about the arena last week. It’s going ahead people, this is just part of the process.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Buff

He says this in response to finding out the Emperor is coming. So who's the Emperor in this scenario? Eichel?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

He says this in response to finding out the Emperor is coming. So who's the Emperor in this scenario? Eichel?

Murray Edwards.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1412261613806120964

https://twitter.com/user/status/1412262255773634568

https://twitter.com/user/status/1412262843907395586

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1412266099782021123

https://twitter.com/user/status/1412265686819229699

https://twitter.com/user/status/1412267253496631302

[sureLoss]

So sounds like the practice facility is toast for sure unless CSEC pays for it by themselves.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

So sounds like the practice facility is toast for sure unless CSEC pays for it by themselves.

...or CSEC's guys (e.g. Davidson) win the election and the new city council approves an additional "small" budget ask later this year

[Muta]

Ooof. And with the Arts Commons project now ramping up, the City will need to navigate this sensitively if additional financial assistance is requested. That is a big IF, though.

[Lanny_McDonald]

This is turning into a bit of a debacle. When you start whittling down features of plan it usually means poor planning from the get go. Might as well shelve the whole thing and stay in the Saddledome. When you don't upgrade to meet the needs of the involved interests, then there is no use in spending the money to build another facility that is clearly lacking the amenities that meet the long term needs. Just a waste of time and money.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is turning into a bit of a debacle. When you start whittling down features of plan it usually means poor planning from the get go. Might as well shelve the whole thing and stay in the Saddledome. When you don't upgrade to meet the needs of the involved interests, then there is no use in spending the money to build another facility that is clearly lacking the amenities that meet the long term needs. Just a waste of time and money.

Im not so sure about your “poor planning part”. Covid hit and changed the cost of raw materials big time. Prices are going down but from what I have heard they will not be going back fully to pre covid prices. Im actually shocked that they are only over by $50 million .

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Im not so sure about your “poor planning part”. Covid hit and changed the cost of raw materials big time. Prices are going down but from what I have heard they will not be going back fully to pre covid prices. Im actually shocked that they are only over by $50 million .

If you're not building in some padding in your estimates, and then have contingency processes and funding also built into the plans for something this large, it is not well planned. Yes, COVID is a monkey wrench, but those monkey wrenches are things you plan for and factor those into your plans. Can you imagine a public works project, say like a wastewater treatment plant, where you started removing components because of increasing costs? "We don't need that extra settling pond." That would be a massive failure. You plan for these possibilities and you build in contingency plans to address these very concerns. Sure, you likely have to go back and make the ask for the contingency funds, but those should have been accounted for and that possibility identified out of the gate. The fact that we're talking 10% of projected cost of the entire project, I would have thought this overrun would have been contained in the original budget to begin with.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Im actually shocked that they are only over by $50 million .

Well... plus whatever they saved from cutting the secondary rink.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If you're not building in some padding in your estimates, and then have contingency processes and funding also built into the plans for something this large, it is not well planned. Yes, COVID is a monkey wrench, but those monkey wrenches are things you plan for and factor those into your plans. Can you imagine a public works project, say like a wastewater treatment plant, where you started removing components because of increasing costs? "We don't need that extra settling pond." That would be a massive failure. You plan for these possibilities and you build in contingency plans to address these very concerns. Sure, you likely have to go back and make the ask for the contingency funds, but those should have been accounted for and that possibility identified out of the gate. The fact that we're talking 10% of projected cost of the entire project, I would have thought this overrun would have been contained in the original budget to begin with.

While it's normal to have a contingency built in, it's not customary to have a huge contingency. You don't assume a pandemic every time you plan to build a project. 5% of hard costs would be normal. That's quite bit less than 10% of the entire project.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If you're not building in some padding in your estimates, and then have contingency processes and funding also built into the plans for something this large, it is not well planned. Yes, COVID is a monkey wrench, but those monkey wrenches are things you plan for and factor those into your plans. Can you imagine a public works project, say like a wastewater treatment plant, where you started removing components because of increasing costs? "We don't need that extra settling pond." That would be a massive failure. You plan for these possibilities and you build in contingency plans to address these very concerns. Sure, you likely have to go back and make the ask for the contingency funds, but those should have been accounted for and that possibility identified out of the gate. The fact that we're talking 10% of projected cost of the entire project, I would have thought this overrun would have been contained in the original budget to begin with.

If material costs have risen, then you need to up your budget AND maintain your contingency for construction.

If you eat up your contingency before beginning construction, then it is really poor planning. You are suggesting that it is poor planning, but they are following standard PM practices.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

If material costs have risen, then you need to up your budget AND maintain your contingency for construction.

If you eat up your contingency before beginning construction, then it is really poor planning. You are suggesting that it is poor planning, but they are following standard PM practices.

Which is good planning

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If you're not building in some padding in your estimates, and then have contingency processes and funding also built into the plans for something this large, it is not well planned. Yes, COVID is a monkey wrench, but those monkey wrenches are things you plan for and factor those into your plans. Can you imagine a public works project, say like a wastewater treatment plant, where you started removing components because of increasing costs? "We don't need that extra settling pond." That would be a massive failure. You plan for these possibilities and you build in contingency plans to address these very concerns. Sure, you likely have to go back and make the ask for the contingency funds, but those should have been accounted for and that possibility identified out of the gate. The fact that we're talking 10% of projected cost of the entire project, I would have thought this overrun would have been contained in the original budget to begin with.

Building materials are up like 200% right now. (Well lumber at least, think steel is only up 20%)

So not sure how they are supposed to build that big of a contingency though.

Agree though that the answer shouldn't be scaling back or removing items from the plan but that they need to be looking at alternative ways to secure the funding required to complete the initial vision.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Building materials are up like 200% right now. (Well lumber at least, think steel is only up 20%)

So not sure how they are supposed to build that big of a contingency though.

Agree though that the answer shouldn't be scaling back or removing items from the plan but that they need to be looking at alternative ways to secure the funding required to complete the initial vision.

Yep. Pass the increased costs on to the customer if these things are really important to their experience.