[PST] Stanley Cup Final: Montreal Canadiens vs. Tampa Bay Lightning---Bolts win the Cup 4-1

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Even if it is not allowed, Tampa is doing what it takes to win. So in that respect being over the cap is irrelevant. They are doing whatever it takes to get to the top and making it a reality. There was a time when Badger bob used to find loopholes like pulling goalies to use as a time out. He came up with a 7 point plan, created lines to target the other teams big stars "see Neil Sheehy vs Gretzky". Everyone thought those oilers were unstoppable but the Flames built a team to defeat them. They had a plan, they executed, it and built some great powerhouse teams.

The current Flames have to get with the game do whatever it takes to win and stop calling things a process. I remember Cliff Fletcher talking about trading 3 players for 1 to get a good player. I am not suggesting we do that, but the Flames need to be more creative stack the team think long term.

Organization has to be better, more shrewd, do whatever it takes, instead of talking like we are competing with 30 other teams.

Sheehy vs Gretzky
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-toth-butcher/

Tampa deserves some credit they doing whatever they have to.

I lived outside of the Flames catchment area and was just getting into hockey at that time. It was that series and the "villainous" Flames taking it to the league pets that made me a Flames fan. We could really use a Sheehy 2.0 right about now.

[getbak]

If Canadian teams were constantly struggling and finishing at the bottom of the league, there might be value in trying to figure out why Canadian teams are having trouble competing, but they're not.

Since 2004, 22 different teams have played in the Stanley Cup Final. 5 different Canadian teams have played in the Final in that time. The Flames, Oilers, and Canucks were all one win away from the Cup. The Flames and Canucks both had 3-2 series leads in the Finals.

Since the lockout season, the Canucks have won the President's Trophy twice, and the Senators, Canadiens, Jets, and Flames have all finished second overall in the regular season at least once each.

Canadian teams haven't been struggling, they just haven't won the Cup, but a lot of teams haven't won the Cup. This will be the 27th time the Cup is presented since the Habs last won. In that time, only 14 different franchises have won it, which means 17 franchises haven't.


Also, keep in mind that when the Habs won in 1993, it was the 8th time in 10 years the Cup had been won by a Canadian team. These sorts of things go in cycles. Remember that a lot of recent winners ended long droughts of their own when they won: St Louis had been around for more than 50 years when they finally won; Washington and LA were about 45 years; Chicago's Cup drought was nearly 50 years and Boston's was almost 40 years.

[1qqaaz]

Canada would have been a lot better in the last 30 years if Edmonton wasn't single handedly dragging the country down.

[hwy19man]

Game 3 final score
Lightning 6 at Habs 3
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...ly-2-1.6088830
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...cap137141.html

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02...-vs-canadiens/
https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/07/03...ck-cup-titles/

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2356276
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...epeat-horizon/

https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/sto...e-win-away-cup
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...work-do-game-4

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by getbak

If Canadian teams were constantly struggling and finishing at the bottom of the league, there might be value in trying to figure out why Canadian teams are having trouble competing, but they're not.

Since 2004, 22 different teams have played in the Stanley Cup Final. 5 different Canadian teams have played in the Final in that time. The Flames, Oilers, and Canucks were all one win away from the Cup. The Flames and Canucks both had 3-2 series leads in the Finals.

Since the lockout season, the Canucks have won the President's Trophy twice, and the Senators, Canadiens, Jets, and Flames have all finished second overall in the regular season at least once each.

Canadian teams haven't been struggling, they just haven't won the Cup, but a lot of teams haven't won the Cup. This will be the 27th time the Cup is presented since the Habs last won. In that time, only 14 different franchises have won it, which means 17 franchises haven't.


Also, keep in mind that when the Habs won in 1993, it was the 8th time in 10 years the Cup had been won by a Canadian team. These sorts of things go in cycles. Remember that a lot of recent winners ended long droughts of their own when they won: St Louis had been around for more than 50 years when they finally won; Washington and LA were about 45 years; Chicago's Cup drought was nearly 50 years and Boston's was almost 40 years.

2006 Carolina beat Edmonton
2007 Anaheim beat Ottawa
2008 Detroit beat Pittsburgh
2009 Pittsbugh beat Detroit
2010 Chicago beat Philadelphia
2011 Boston beat Vancouver
2012 Los Angeles beat New Jersey
2013 Chicago beat Boston
2014 Los Angeles beat NY Rangers
2015 Chicago beat Tampa Bay
2016 Pittsburgh beat San Jose
2017 Pittsburgh beat Nashville
2018 Washington beat Vegas
2019 St Louis beat Boston
2020 Tampa Bay beat Dallas
2021 Tampa Bay beat Montreal
------------------------------

Since the lockout, of the 32 entrants into the Stanley Cup finals, only four of them have been Canadian, and this year is the first year in a decade that a Canadian team has made an appearance. I'd add that the Canadiens made it by beating only one American franchise due to the whacky playoff format this year that guaranteed a Canadian team a spot in the final four.

You'd expect the number of entrants to be about double the four that there has been in the last sixteen years. Out of the thirty-two entrants in the finals, at least seven of them should have been Canadian just to meet the average.

[Jay Random]

MegaErtz, I note that you leave out the 2004 Finals, which getbak was including. I seem to recall that there was a Canadian team in that series also, though I could be mistaken.

[MegaErtz]

Well, in fairness, he said SINCE 2004, and seeing as how the lockout is how we ended up with a salary cap which was supposed to even the playing field and stop teams in big American markets from buying the best teams, I feel it is a much fairer cutoff point.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Well, in fairness, he said SINCE 2004, and seeing as how the lockout is how we ended up with a salary cap which was supposed to even the playing field and stop teams in big American markets from buying the best teams, I feel it is a much fairer cutoff point.

Not sure if you are purposely being obtuse, but the salary cap was to even the playing field and help small market teams like Florida and Calgary. Not Canada vs US. It was teams like Toronto and NYR that were buying teams (and still losing in the process btw).

[MegaErtz]

Not sure if you've been a Calgary Flames SINCE 1988 or if you were born in 1988, but the NHL had something called the "Canadian Assistance Program" to help even out the playing field due to the weak Canadian dollar, which was worth only 59c US at one point in the early 2000s. All I heard from Gary Bettman during the lockout was how if they didn't get a salary cap, Canadian teams wouldn't be able to compete in a post-lockout NHL. Well guess what? They haven't been able to compete even with a salary cap.

[MegaErtz]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...tance-1.273186

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Not sure if you've been a Calgary Flames SINCE 1988 or if you were born in 1988, but the NHL had something called the "Canadian Assistance Program" to help even out the playing field due to the weak Canadian dollar, which was worth only 59c US at one point in the early 2000s. All I heard from Gary Bettman during the lockout was how if they didn't get a salary cap, Canadian teams wouldn't be able to compete in a post-lockout NHL. Well guess what? They haven't been able to compete even with a salary cap.

They have been able to compete. They haven't been able to win championships. Those are not the same thing at all.

When your business model is based on selling out your arena every year to long-term fans, you try very hard not to lose. When your business model is based on selling seats at high prices to bandwagon fans, you try very hard to set yourself up to win, even if it means losing a lot in the meantime.

This fits right in with the Canadian aversion to risk that I mentioned upthread. Hockey is a nice, safe business in Canada, as long as you don't go crazy by gambling and trying to win championships. In the U.S., it's a feast-or-famine business with a high risk of continued failure, but big rewards for the rare owner who succeeds. Guess which side makes the effort to win?

When you have 20 owners who are taking risks to win it all, and 7 who are playing it safe, the odds are very poor that one of those 7 will ever come out on top. (The other four or five owners are stuck with the no-hope franchises like Arizona. They don't figure in the calculations one way or the other.)

[dino7c]

Tampa may be cap cheaters but Montreal has the same or less wins than 5 non-playoff teams. They shouldn't be complaining about teams taking advantage of odd rules. They clinched a playoff spot by losing a close one lol.

[Northendzone]

the other day steve simmons noted teh following about tampa bay:

Brayden Point has scored 28 goals the past two playoff seasons. That’s a remarkable 11 more goals than anyone else in hockey in that time. Point would be in the Conn Smythe conversation, just not ahead of his teammates Kucherov and Vasilevskiy … This is a cool stat: Victor Hedman, the best defenceman in the world and last year’s Conn Smythe winner, scored a goal in each of the past 12 months. No one has ever done that before … We’ll look back one day and wonder: How was it that Hedman won so few Norris Trophies? He only has one as of now. Probably should have three … Kucherov has 66 points in the past two playoff seasons.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

the other day steve simmons noted teh following about tampa bay:

Brayden Point has scored 28 goals the past two playoff seasons. That’s a remarkable 11 more goals than anyone else in hockey in that time. Point would be in the Conn Smythe conversation, just not ahead of his teammates Kucherov and Vasilevskiy … This is a cool stat: Victor Hedman, the best defenceman in the world and last year’s Conn Smythe winner, scored a goal in each of the past 12 months. No one has ever done that before … We’ll look back one day and wonder: How was it that Hedman won so few Norris Trophies? He only has one as of now. Probably should have three … Kucherov has 66 points in the past two playoff seasons.

This Lightning team is special good. Best goaltender in the league, best defensemen in the league, best two playoff forwards in the league, and arguably the best head coach in the league. Hats off to that organization for drafting and building a team that has no weaknesses at all. I'm glad they are going to win the cup as the organization fully deserves it for being better than the rest of the league at nearly everything.

[ricardodw]

A guy from Thunder Bay won Tim Horton's contest to go to a SC final game.

CTV report

He and the other 4 winners were told that due to covid restrictions and limited seating they could take $5000 (likely the regular value of the prize) or go to a SC final game 2022 or the NHL All Star game.

As a big Habs fan he got in touch with CTV to pressure Tim Horton's to honor his win.

The cost of a couple of Tickets to game 4 is $30,000. A game in Tampa Bay is likely messed up by Covid travel restrictions.

He left on Sunday for tonight's game 4.


Maybe the tax payer does not have to fund these big areas. 5,000 x $15,000 = 75,000,000 where 30,000 seats at $300 = only brings in 9,000,000.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

A guy from Thunder Bay won Tim Horton's contest to go to a SC final game.

CTV report

He and the other 4 winners were told that due to covid restrictions and limited seating they could take $5000 (likely the regular value of the prize) or go to a SC final game 2022 or the NHL All Star game.

As a big Habs fan he got in touch with CTV to pressure Tim Horton's to honor his win.

The cost of a couple of Tickets to game 4 is $30,000. A game in Tampa Bay is likely messed up by Covid travel restrictions.

He left on Sunday for tonight's game 4.


Maybe the tax payer does not have to fund these big areas. 5,000 x $15,000 = 75,000,000 where 30,000 seats at $300 = only brings in 9,000,000.

You're just making up numbers to support some weird opinion.

A Stanley Cup final game in Canada will sell for more than $300 and what arena has 30,000 seats?

No way games go for $15,000 in a regular playoff year. This year the seating is extremely limited and people are dying to get back to doing normal things.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This Lightning team is special good. Best goaltender in the league, best defensemen in the league, best two playoff forwards in the league, and arguably the best head coach in the league. Hats off to that organization for drafting and building a team that has no weaknesses at all. I'm glad they are going to win the cup as the organization fully deserves it for being better than the rest of the league at nearly everything.

The really impressive thing is that when their window for winning was opened in 2014-15... they had their core in place Stamkos, Killorn, Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasilevskiy and they had some set backs but they identified that they needed "truculence" and went out and got it while hanging on to their skilled core. That is an amazing feat of player management.

[GioforPM]

"Some setbacks" = losing in the finals. The biggest thing that happened since is Point emerging and Vasilevskiy taking the net.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"Some setbacks" = losing in the finals. The biggest thing that happened since is Point emerging and Vasilevskiy taking the net.

Cernak
Sergachev
Coleman
Cirelli
Maroon
Goodrow
Bogosian
Savard

These are the larger meaner people that have been added to the Lightning so that they can run a team out of the rink and make the Montreal monsters on defense seem to be normal sized.

You are being willfully blind if you can't see that Gaudreau would be as good as Point on the TB team and that Point would be waiting to get traded out out of Calgary.

It also works the other way in the great skilled players Kucherov, Point, Stamkos etc take the scoring pressure off the more physical players.

Vasilevskiy took over from Bishop.

He got the benefit of having a bigger more physical defense in front of him. There isn't a time when TB doesn't have a reasonable physical presence on the ice when Perry and Gallagher feel the urge to run Vasilevskiy.

[dino7c]

Lol Tampa's mayor wants them to take it easy tonight and give Montreal one so they can win at home in game 5. Imagine a cup final with so little competition that the cities mayor wants them to lose a cup clinching game so they can win in an ideal scenario.