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Flamesfan05 · 07-04-2021, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, how do you determine what makes a good second liner?

Backlund's production has been consistently within the top-40-50 centres, while simultaneously carrying the heaviest defensive load on the team, and he is paid accordingly.

Backlund is not an elite second-line centre, but he is most certainly a capable one who is effective at both ends of the ice. He won't be exposed in the expansion draft, but if he were, then he would almost certainly be selected, and he would likely be the best forward on Seattle's roster next season.

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I didn’t say he was bad. He would be a great 3rd line center. Other than occasionally, I don’t think he provides consistent 2nd line offense. Basically he should be on the 3 rd line for a GOOD team

Textcritic · 07-04-2021, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I didn’t say he was bad. He would be a great 3rd line center. Other than occasionally, I don’t think he provides consistent 2nd line offense. Basically he should be on the 3 rd line for a GOOD team

What do you imagine to be "consistent second line offense"? Because if it is not based on the average production of second-line players—by which Backlund then easily qualifies—then what else is it?

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GioforPM · 07-04-2021, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I didn’t say he was bad. He would be a great 3rd line center. Other than occasionally, I don’t think he provides consistent 2nd line offense. Basically he should be on the 3 rd line for a GOOD team

48th highest paid centre. 40th highest scoring centre. Tied in points with Colorado’s 2C. One point less than the Isles’ 2C. More than the Wild 2C.

Flamesfan05 · 07-04-2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

48th highest paid centre. 40th highest scoring centre. Tied in points with Colorado’s 2C. One point less than the Isles’ 2C. More than the Wild 2C.

Ok then.

I guess the Flames just need McKinnon or Bazal to carry the offense then

Flamesfan05 · 07-04-2021, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What do you imagine to be "consistent second line offense"? Because if it is not based on the average production of second-line players—by which Backlund then easily qualifies—then what else is it?

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I guess just the feeling I got when Johnny was shut down and nobody picked up the offense? All those 1 goal games got to me. Sorry.

Jay Random · 07-04-2021, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Ok then.

I guess the Flames just need McKinnon or Bazal to carry the offense then

So your argument is that Backlund is not a #2 C because the Flames' #1 C is not good enough? OK, then.

The Cobra · 07-04-2021, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Ok then.

I guess the Flames just need McKinnon or Bazal to carry the offense then

I’m just not sure why you blame Backlund for that.

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GioforPM · 07-04-2021, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Ok then.

I guess the Flames just need McKinnon or Bazal to carry the offense then

Barzal 45 points. Lindholm 47 points.

Reggie Dunlop · 07-04-2021, 01:29 PM

Sucks to lose a roster/depth player, but so does every other team, save Vegas.

Seattle might take Kylington. Their contingent on the shared AHL team in Charlotte will more resemble a glorified taxi squad than developmental squad. At least for the first season.

My concern is they may ask for additional asset(s) in taking Kylington instead of Gordano. Does Trevliving call that bluff or not?

Textcritic · 07-04-2021, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

48th highest paid centre. 40th highest scoring centre. Tied in points with Colorado’s 2C. One point less than the Isles’ 2C. More than the Wild 2C.

Another way to look at this is that there are 11 NHL teams with at least two higher-scoring centres than Mikael Backlund, and this is not factoring in that several of those players are playing the wing while retaining the designation as a centre. I would say that qualifies him on its own as better than even an average second line centre, since at least 20 of 31 teams do not have as good of an option.

Textcritic · 07-04-2021, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

That doesn’t mean he is a good 2nd liner

Based on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I guess just the feeling I got.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Ok then.

I guess the Flames just need McKinnon or Bazal to carry the offense then

Just so we are clear: the first assertion was soundly debunked, which prompted you to shift the goal-posts and make an entirely different argument. Good job.

powderjunkie · 07-04-2021, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

That doesn’t mean he is a good 2nd liner

Irrelevant. If the goal is to lose as little as possible in the ED, then it's you don't want to lose Backlund.

If Backlund made 4.75M it would be unquestionably fair value. If he made 4.25M or less it would be excellent value. At 5.35M he is fair to slightly overpaid. Considering it's a 6 year deal, the first half was more than fair, the last half will be a little less than fair.

Who do you think is more divergent from their AAV for the remainder of their contract? Gio or Backlund?

Poe969 · 07-04-2021, 03:34 PM

It's not Backlund's fault. He would be amazing behind an elite C. The team is poorly built, the players are doing their best they're just set up to fail.

FlamesAddiction · 07-04-2021, 03:39 PM

Backlund doesn’t just get paid for production. He gets paid for his leadership and loyalty, and the fact he seems to GAF more than most of the other top 6 forwards. I think it would be a big mistake to lose him, and to a lesser Ryan, in the same off season.

ForeverFlameFan · 07-04-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Backlund doesn’t just get paid for production. He gets paid for his leadership and loyalty, and the fact he seems to GAF more than most of the other top 6 forwards. I think it would be a big mistake to lose him, and to a lesser Ryan, in the same off season.

If we lost the both of them in one off-season we will be a bottom team in this league.

Textcritic · 07-04-2021, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Backlund doesn’t just get paid for production. He gets paid for his leadership and loyalty.

Well, no.

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Coach · 07-04-2021, 04:07 PM

Backlund does get paid to produce as well. And he does accordingly. He's consistently earned his money IMO.

Cobra · 07-04-2021, 04:07 PM

Without Baclund's great play and shutdown capabilities we could not have won so many championships.
Oh wait um er nevermind.

Jay Random · 07-04-2021, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

Without Baclund's great play and shutdown capabilities we could not have won so many championships.
Oh wait um er nevermind.

By that argument, most of the players in the NHL are useless.

GioforPM · 07-04-2021, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Another way to look at this is that there are 11 NHL teams with at least two higher-scoring centres than Mikael Backlund, and this is not factoring in that several of those players are playing the wing while retaining the designation as a centre. I would say that qualifies him on its own as better than even an average second line centre, since at least 20 of 31 teams do not have as good of an option.

Right - I was going to mention that a bunch of higher producing centres play on the wing a lot (and some all the time). And some others are just centre rich like TBL, Toronto and Pittsburgh, in that they have two 1C quality players.