You appeared to be blaming Catholics not the Catholic chrurch so I assumed you judged Canadians in the same manner for Canadas failure. Various Canadian governments at least one of which you would have voted for over time have hired lawyers to get out of meeting treaty requirements. Cecils post really nails it. It’s always easier to blame Sky Daddy.
If your post was just about the Church than that’s reasonable but then you shouldn’t be using Catholics. Catholics probably represent the greatest portion of the Catholic Churches victims.
Sorry, you didn’t answer how much you donated. How much was it? If you’re going to use that as a tool to try to diminish someone’s point, I assume you’re happy to tell everyone your personal contributions.
You appeared to be blaming Catholics not the Catholic chrurch so I assumed you judged Canadians in the same manner for Canadas failure. Various Canadian governments at least one of which you would have voted for over time have hired lawyers to get out of meeting treaty requirements. Cecils post really nails it. It’s always easier to blame Sky Daddy.
If your post was just about the Church than that’s reasonable but then you shouldn’t be using Catholics. Catholics probably represent the greatest portion of the Catholic Churches victims.
By people continuing to attend and financially support the Catholic Church, they are giving the organization a pass on their atrocities. The Church understands money and attendance. Take that power away. Write your pastor and tell them you aren't coming back and won't be contributing financially until they apologize properly, release records and cooperate fully. Catholics have power to actually help here. But they've been convinced skipping Church will harm them in the afterlife, so not many will do it. But if you are a Catholic(not directed specifically at you, GGG), think long and hard about how you are enabling the continued harm that is being done to our fellow Canadians.
And if you want to deflect, as a Canadian I try to vote in a manner that supports the same actions, and am happy to have my tax dollars fund what needs to be funded. But I can't fund the Church any less than I already do.
It's weird, because people like to talk about all the good Churches do as to why they deserve a tax free status. Well, now's their chance.
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
By people continuing to attend and financially support the Catholic Church, they are giving the organization a pass on their atrocities. The Church understands money and attendance. Take that power away. Write your pastor and tell them you aren't coming back and won't be contributing financially until they apologize properly, release records and cooperate fully. Catholics have power to actually help here. But they've been convinced skipping Church will harm them in the afterlife, so not many will do it. But if you are a Catholic(not directed specifically at you, GGG), think long and hard about how you are enabling the continued harm that is being done to our fellow Canadians.
And if you want to deflect, as a Canadian I try to vote in a manner that supports the same actions, and am happy to have my tax dollars fund what needs to be funded. But I can't fund the Church any less than I already do.
It's weird, because people like to talk about all the good Churches do as to why they deserve a tax free status. Well, now's their chance.
I actually think we are pretty close to having the same position on the residential school issue in general. The Church is a failing institution in Canada whose money and attendance will drop with time.
My concern with what has become religion bashing is that it misses the larger actor and the one that continues to fail. This is continuous government policies and failure since white people landed in North America and still continues today.
I think things that focus on the Catholic Churches failure especially in the tone of UCBs posts is trying to create a group of others to blame while rationalizing all of the benefit we have received from these policies.
We as individuals benefit tremendously from the murder and mistreatment of aboriginal people in a historical and ongoing basis and elect governments who just pay lip service to the issue.
It has never been an election issue so why does one expect it to be a church attendance issue. All of the suggestions of write your pastor apply to write your MP and MLA. The othering of this issue really frustrates me. We have a Prime Minister who thanked protesters for their political contribution who want clean water while he had security escort them out and continues to have done nothing to fix the issue. We have known about the graves publically since the TRuth and Rec report and the government did nothing.
I don’t want to be dismissive of what the church did but every moment that isn’t focused on the current governments failures is wasting the very brief time that the public cares about this issue. This is Today’s problem and the bad actor today is our governments.
Last edited by GGG; 07-01-2021 at 09:49 AM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
Most of them begin with "We call upon the federal government to work with the churches and Aboriginal community leaders"
Now I have no idea if the government has been doing this. Are they attempting to work with the church and being met with non-cooperation? Or is there stuff going on the background we don't know? Or is the government doing nothing?
Most of them begin with "We call upon the federal government to work with the churches and Aboriginal community leaders"
Now I have no idea if the government has been doing this. Are they attempting to work with the church and being met with non-cooperation? Or is there stuff going on the background we don't know? Or is the government doing nothing?
No idea.
The government has a status report on all actions here
So glad His Holiness can find time in his December calendar to meet with Indigenous leaders.
It's way too hot now for Popey Frank to get on his air conditioned private jet adorned in gold and fly all the way to his destination to drive in his air conditioned Popemobile to the place where he would apologize. It'll be much cooler in every sense of the word if he can do it in December so that apologists can wave banners welcoming and applauding him for doing the bare minimum the Catholic Church should have done decades ago. You know, when the barely conscious can go back to not caring about what they heard in the news months ago.
Unfortunately these things will just erode support for indigenous people.
No way. Look at all the progress the BLM movement made this summer. A new government was elected to take action, and now white collar workers across the US have an extra holiday.
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Bill Bumface For This Useful Post:
No way. Look at all the progress the BLM movement made this summer. A new government was elected to take action, and now white collar workers across the US have an extra holiday.
Alright, I laughed.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Unfortunately these things will just erode support for indigenous people.
At this point, Canada should be thankful they they haven't formed militant or terrorist groups. There are numerous areas in the world where poverty and oppression have led to such things. Their resiliency to not fall into that path is something to be admired.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
At this point, Canada should be thankful they they haven't formed militant or terrorist groups. There are numerous areas in the world where poverty and oppression have led to such things. Their resiliency to not fall into that path is something to be admired.
So, to pull back from the church talk for a bit...
It comes down to culpability vs. responsibility. I may not be culpable for what my ancestors did, but I am responsible for dealing with the situation happening in this country today, as difficult and uncomfortable as that may be. I've certainly been culpable of proliferating stereotypes, and I acknowledge that I'm not taking responsibility for the future when I fall back on old terminology that I know to be outdated. This Canada Day has made me think about that deeply.
To take responsibility, the best I can do is help my kids understand their responsibility to respect indigenous people, cultures, and trauma (without instilling guilt), and make sure I become more aware of and responsible with my prejudices.
Last edited by Cube Inmate; 07-02-2021 at 02:49 AM.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Cube Inmate For This Useful Post:
The outrage is rightfully targeted at the Catholic Church. I'm not sure if this was posted before, but it's worthwhile reading to understand why they are being targeted.
Quote:
The church agreed to pay $25 million for school survivors in a historic settlement in 2005. The deal obligated the church to make "best efforts," and launch a fundraising campaign similar to that of a university or hospital.
After seven years, less than $4 million had been raised nationally. The church's lawyers argued in a secret court hearing it had made those best efforts and a judge agreed, absolving the church of further fundraising. The results of the hearing were published months later.
Quote:
All other church denominations that were part of the settlement — Anglican, United, Presbyterian — paid their full shares years ago.
Meanwhile, they are blowing tens of millions on new and upgraded Churches everywhere, so it's not like they are short on money. The Catholic Church could stop these events, but they are more concerned about their finances than doing what is right and what they agreed too, then weaseled their way out of. So excuse me if I have trouble getting outraged over these symbols of horror being razed to the ground.
If these were mosques, this would be labelled up and down by media as hate crimes.
I mean, there is actually a difference here. The actions being complained of are literally those of the Catholic church as an organization. In every instance where a mosque is vandalized that I'm aware of, it's been done because some people did a bad thing and the people who did it were Muslim, and in most cases, cited their religion as their motivation for doing it. It's not "the Islamic Church" doing it - there's no such thing. Islam doesn't have a top-down central authority organizing it or a "Pope" figure.
Of course, that difference is not actually the reason for the different treatment because the media and the public aren't capable of understanding this level of nuance. The real reason is that the media and people in general are too stupid to know the difference between attacking a religion for its precepts and the honest-to-goodness racism that motivates many of the people who would be up for defacing a mosque, so they'll label any such practice as racism, while being influenced by organizations like CAIR that try their hardest to erase the line between criticism of their religion and that aforementioned racism to try to make such criticism impossible.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
You appeared to be blaming Catholics not the Catholic chrurch so I assumed you judged Canadians in the same manner for Canadas failure. Various Canadian governments at least one of which you would have voted for over time have hired lawyers to get out of meeting treaty requirements. Cecils post really nails it. It’s always easier to blame Sky Daddy.
If your post was just about the Church than that’s reasonable but then you shouldn’t be using Catholics. Catholics probably represent the greatest portion of the Catholic Churches victims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I actually think we are pretty close to having the same position on the residential school issue in general. The Church is a failing institution in Canada whose money and attendance will drop with time.
My concern with what has become religion bashing is that it misses the larger actor and the one that continues to fail. This is continuous government policies and failure since white people landed in North America and still continues today.
I think things that focus on the Catholic Churches failure especially in the tone of UCBs posts is trying to create a group of others to blame while rationalizing all of the benefit we have received from these policies.
We as individuals benefit tremendously from the murder and mistreatment of aboriginal people in a historical and ongoing basis and elect governments who just pay lip service to the issue.
It has never been an election issue so why does one expect it to be a church attendance issue. All of the suggestions of write your pastor apply to write your MP and MLA. The othering of this issue really frustrates me. We have a Prime Minister who thanked protesters for their political contribution who want clean water while he had security escort them out and continues to have done nothing to fix the issue. We have known about the graves publically since the TRuth and Rec report and the government did nothing.
I don’t want to be dismissive of what the church did but every moment that isn’t focused on the current governments failures is wasting the very brief time that the public cares about this issue. This is Today’s problem and the bad actor today is our governments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
The government has a status report on all actions here
You can evaluate if you think they are doing enough or if it’s just lip service.
I am going to assume $0 in contributions from you?
You can't completely separate the Catholics from the Catholic church. I mean are they in the Church but not of the Church?
The Catholic Church had agreed to compensate victims $25 million in 2006, they build a Palace worth $28 million started in 2010 then legally bobbed and weaved to get out of paying the $25 million.
This approach is morally bankrupt and those that continue to attend and tithe to the Church without demanding better of the Church put some of this on them as well.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
The Following User Says Thank You to undercoverbrother For This Useful Post:
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
The outrage is rightfully targeted at the Catholic Church. I'm not sure if this was posted before, but it's worthwhile reading to understand why they are being targeted.
Meanwhile, they are blowing tens of millions on new and upgraded Churches everywhere, so it's not like they are short on money. The Catholic Church could stop these events, but they are more concerned about their finances than doing what is right and what they agreed too, then weaseled their way out of. So excuse me if I have trouble getting outraged over these symbols of horror being razed to the ground.
Oh I get and understand the viotrol towards the CC. It's reprehensible what happened.
That has nothing to do with what Im saying though.
Just because we are mad and have hatred towards something or someone, does not mean we are allowed to light it/them on fire or deface their buildings.
Or if it is, then lets just have vigilante justice for everything and see how that turns out.
If we want true equality in this country, then lets treat everyone equally.
And has been mentioned, it would be really unfortunate if these criminal acts take away the support and awareness that is starting to happen for the indiginous members of this country. Something that is more than likely to happen if its not reigned in.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to transplant99 For This Useful Post:
