[PST] Stanley Cup Final: Montreal Canadiens vs. Tampa Bay Lightning---Bolts win the Cup 4-1

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Awesome, so NHL shouldn't grow it's market base to newer regions. Great business plan.

Yeah actually, #### it you're right. Bring on the Mexico city matadors next year. We gotta grow the game down there

[metroneck]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Nobody watches when the sunbelt teams play outside of the markets involved. The Dallas tbay series last year had the lowest tv ratings in a long long time. And it's not just in canada. Even in the northern US traditional hockey markets there it was the same story and fans find other things to do. I hated seeing some random southern us team come to town when I had flames tickets.... you just don't care as much unless they have a huge star. And it's harder to sell the tickets even compared to a Canadian team or a traditional US northern market like the hawks, wings, ranger, bruins, flyers, etc even when those teams are crappy on ice.

Tampa mgmt has built a fantastic team, think they are gonna win, kudos to them but i still hate sunbelt teams and think they are bad for long term viability of the sport and I find it kinda tragic watching a team with 80,000 fans clobber a market where 2 million people would be out in the streets after a win.

I think the nhl should have focused on maintaining the fanbase in cities where people grow up loving the game and not expanded into the southern us. Other engwrtainment is moving in when hockey isn't compelling, youth hockey enrollment in canada has been flat or declining relative to overall population for 20 years now and eventually will come home to roost in tv and ticket #s when coupled with rising ticket prices imo. Winning in those sunbelt markets has an opportunity cost.

Have you experienced minor hockey in the Sunbelt? I been in the US for 4 years, and I am definitely a hockey snob. Having 2 kids playing travel hockey here, I’ve been to 15+ tournaments in non-traditional markets.

I can tell you, the parents are pretty clueless about the game, but the passion is the same. The teams we play love the game as much as we do.

On the flip side, Colorado has 3 Div 1 programs, and as many kids playing minor hockey as Alberta. So, lots of hockey, but outside of my kids hockey social group, nobody cares about the Avs. Is CO worthy?

Also, of the 10 or so long time Avs season tx holders I know, 0 of them ever played hockey. Are they worthy?

[Matty81]

Thats fair and not slagging the folks who do embrace the game there. I am just saying that personally I think moving too far south and watering down the product down to the extent they have has hurt their popularity in larger traditional markets (and also I personally would rather watch band of brothers again for the 20th time instead of any sunbelt team). Colorado has always seemed like a decent market to me where there was some hockey culture before they went. It doesn't seem like an if u build it they will come approach like Arizona and Florida.

Carolina, Sunrise, Glendale, Tampa... I'm expecting the teams will be gone in a decade or two. Then you've basically undermined your popularity in your prime markets and what do you have to show for it. I would have liked to see them move more slowly but I get that the expansion money was too tempting.

[Tsawwassen]

Game 2 final score
Habs 1 at Lightning 3
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...ning-1.6087608
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...e-30-1.6087191
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...cap137140.html

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/06/30...-vs-canadiens/
https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/07/01...ens-in-game-2/

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2356275
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ll-behind-0-2/

https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/sto...real-canadiens
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...ing-game-2-win

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Awesome, so NHL shouldn't grow it's market base to newer regions. Great business plan.

Well, not by allowing said "newer" market teams to duck around the cap structure with amazingly coincidental injury timelines that somehow allow them to boast what would otherwise be a roster that is non-compliant.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Coach

Really? Hockey in Florida is cultural appropriation? Reeeeallly?

Players coming from California, Arizona and Texas are proof that hockey can spread. Florida has only had a successful hockey franchise for the last decade or so. It stands to reason that we probably don't start seeing young players out of Florida in any significant way for the next 5-10 years as young fans become athletes. But it will happen. The popularity of the team (and hockey overall) has changed substantially since 2004. Kids will see the excitement of the game and some will want to play. Some will end up being good.

I don't know why we get so defensive about it. Having our game become popular in unexpected new places is a good thing.

Case in point:

Shayne Gostisbehere (Pembroke Pines-basically Fort Lauderdale), Quinn and Jack Hughes (Orlando) and Jakob Chychrun (Boca Raton) are all Florida born players, not to mention Garnet Hathaway (Naples). They were all born in the 90's after teams had been in the area for a few years. It's not hard to make the connection. The most successful Florida-born player before that was Dan Hinote born in 1977.

It's taken some time to produce NHL talent, but I know lots of kids who are now playing in youth hockey programs here. I don't expect it to resemble Canadian culture anytime soon, but to say that hockey cannot grow here and quality players cannot be produced here is just bull####...and honestly, defensive and wishful thinking on the part of Canadians.

The rest of the world is catching up to Canada, and with it being an almost singular piece of Canadian identity, many are becoming emotional and irrational about it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Case in point:

Shayne Gostisbehere (Pembroke Pines-basically Fort Lauderdale), Quinn and Jack Hughes (Orlando) and Jakob Chychrun (Boca Raton) are all Florida born players, not to mention Garnet Hathaway (Naples). They were all born in the 90's after teams had been in the area for a few years. It's not hard to make the connection. The most successful Florida-born player before that was Dan Hinote born in 1977.

It's taken some time to produce NHL talent, but I know lots of kids who are now playing in youth hockey programs here. I don't expect it to resemble Canadian culture anytime soon, but to say that hockey cannot grow here and quality players cannot be produced here is just bull####...and honestly, defensive and wishful thinking on the part of Canadians.

The rest of the world is catching up to Canada, and with it being an almost singular piece of Canadian identity, many are becoming emotional and irrational about it.

Easy there Butch. That's a pretty broad brush you are using there.

I think its great that hockey is making its way throughout every part of NA and indeed, other parts of the world.

There are, by far, WAY more minor pro teams in the sunbelt than there are in all of Canada. No its not NHL, but it is hockey...and thats the point of expansion to these areas and it has worked in spades.

Maybe the poster who hates it and sees it as detrimental would prefer a Canadian only pro league? Good luck with that though, likely wouldn't last more than a couple years when having to compete for players with US based teams.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1410968865295802370

[GirlySports]

What is this logic? CFL? You have to spread your sport to places unknown to get new eyeballs. NHLs fault is that the put a great team in Tampa and don't promote them enough. Or a guy like Barkov has never been on national tv. If Golden State were an NHL team, making 5 finals in a row, they still wouldn't be on tv. We're done with the NBC's 8-team NHL. I hope that changes with ESPN.

Imagine if tennis never spread to Canada. Toronto/Montreal has had a big tournament for decades without a Canadian player. It probably should have been removed according to some logic here. And now we have players!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I think it's funny anyone would say canadian fans feel entitled to win after 30 years without a cup.

It's cheezy and contrived putting sports in places where there is no culture for it and setting up a system where they can beat the places that develop the players and have more fan interest and support. And long run I think by doing it the nhl is cutting its own throat. I generally hate wheb ppl use the tern cultural appropriation in the face but this scenario right here gives me pause.

Tampa hired Steve Yzerman as GM in 2010. Some background - Yzerman was regarded as expected to move to a GM role. Ilitch reportedly tried to promote Holland to make room for Yzerman’s role as GM, and Holland declined the promotion. With Holland committed, other teams sought the opportunity to speak with Yzerman, and he ended up in Tampa, where they continue to benefit from his acumen

By comparison, the same off season the Flames hired Jay Feaster who turned out to be Darryl’s internal successor. He did have a Cup in his second or third year in TB, but it was in and he was working as a blogger the last 2 years. Now they have this grinder Treliving who cut his teeth in a pretty unsuccessful franchise. 3 playoff appearances in 11 years and out of the first round once.

That’s not ‘setting up a system’ you describe where they can beat the teams from places players come from. Being ‘intellectually honest’, Tampa is winning because they have hired good management.

Calgary had the opportunity but they chose their leadership

The NHL is benefitting with more teams at all levels, more fans, and more incoming quality players from non traditional markets

A good market like Calgary meantime is reaping what they sow

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

What is this logic? CFL? You have to spread your sport to places unknown to get new eyeballs. NHLs fault is that the put a great team in Tampa and don't promote them enough. Or a guy like Barkov has never been on national tv. If Golden State were an NHL team, making 5 finals in a row, they still wouldn't be on tv. We're done with the NBC's 8-team NHL. I hope that changes with ESPN.

Imagine if tennis never spread to Canada. Toronto/Montreal has had a big tournament for decades without a Canadian player. It probably should have been removed according to some logic here. And now we have players!

I have no problems with the business wanting to grow, my only gripe is that they do it at the expense of long time fans. I mean, look at the schedule. NHL playoff Friday night hockey! Then off again until Monday? They aren't catering the product to Canadians anymore.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I have no problems with the business wanting to grow, my only gripe is that they do it at the expense of long time fans. I mean, look at the schedule. NHL playoff Friday night hockey! Then off again until Monday? They aren't catering the product to Canadians anymore.

It's July 2 - I think they just want this season over with.

[mile]

https://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/sto...y-cup-playoffs

"Why did he slip to the third round?" current Lightning general manager Julien BriseBois asked rhetorically. "Because his skating wasn't at the level that you'd want it to be at that time for a player of his size. That's why he wasn't drafted in the first round or the second round. That's why we got him in the third round, and we really hit the jackpot."

Point had heard the criticism of his skating ability but didn't take it seriously until the 2014 draft. "I thought I was doing all right," he said with a chuckle. "I didn't know how to fix it or what was wrong with it."

Point wouldn't be the player he is today without the tutelage of Barb Underhill, a former Olympic pairs skater for Canada and a member of the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame. After her competitive career ended and following two decades as a TV commentator on figure skating, Underhill became the NHL's most in-demand skating skills coach. She taught power skating to the Anaheim Ducks, New York Rangers, Maple Leafs and the Lightning, who made Point one of her star pupils.

"He would come out of his turns on his heels. His crossovers were on his heels, so his acceleration wasn't there," she told the Lightning's team website. "So we made several adjustments to get him -- and some of them were mobility issues, some of them were skate issues -- to get him to the right part of the blade. And with him, as soon as he got there, he just took off. It just all clicked."

[CSharp]

Looks like NHL made sure most gamblers bet on the Habs to win it all and then watch the Lightnings clean up with a sweep. Was there even a chance a Canadian team was ever gonna get the Cup back in Canada? Wishful thinking.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Looks like NHL made sure most gamblers bet on the Habs to win it all and then watch the Lightnings clean up with a sweep. Was there even a chance a Canadian team was ever gonna get the Cup back in Canada? Wishful thinking.

Did the NHL need to do anything for most gamblers to bet on the Habs? (Not that they could). Montreal has lots of fans. Fans make for dumb gamblers. This was easy for the bookmakers.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's July 2 - I think they just want this season over with.

If that was the case, why did they wait so long to start the finals?

edit: And why are there 3 days in between game 3 and game 4?

[Cycling76er]

Let's eke out a win and keep it interesting! GO HABS GO!

[GirlySports]

Hrudey must be cursing everytime they show the Desjardins goal.

[FireGilbert]

Wish the NHL would tell us the actual puck drop times. Every other sport seems to have figured this out.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hrudey must be cursing everytime they show the Desjardins goal.

Roy vs Hrudey. Was that series ever in doubt even with Gretzky moving the scales?

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Wish the NHL would tell us the actual puck drop times. Every other sport seems to have figured this out.



Roy vs Hrudey. Was that series ever in doubt even with Gretzky moving the scales?

I'd love to talk to Hrudey about how different that series would've been if he was a butterfly goalie.