2021 NHL Draft

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

In his mock draft Corey Pronman says he has heard Chaz Lucius, Matthew Coronato, and Fedor Svechkov linked with the Flames for their 1st round pick.

https://theathletic.com/2663158/2021...shared-article

Last year Pronman reported that the Flames were interested in Zary and even predicted the Kuznetsov pick in his expanded mock

No to Lucius. Don’t need a slow center that defers zone entries to his wingers. Been there , done that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I disagree. I think the Flames drafting has been middle of the road at absolute best. Since taking over as GM in 2014 the Flames have not exactly ripped it up. 1 for 6 in 2014, and only the disappointing Sam Bennett to show for it. A much improved 3 for 5 in 2015, getting Andersson and Mangiapane, then Kylington, who the team doesn't either trust or appreciate. 2016 should have been a high point, going 3 for 8 and grabbing Tkachuk, Dube, and Fox, but the latter decided he never had interest in playing for anyone other than the Rangers (should have been caught in interviews). Things start to dry up after that. 2016 has the team going (liberally) 2 for 5, with Valimaki being a bit of a disappointment, but could still turn it around. The remainder of that draft rests on Ruzicka. Still some hope, but the fact that the other three picks generated only an ECHL player is a disappointment. 2017 looks like a big goose egg, 0 for 5. No one looks like a player in this group. 2018 and 2019 will be judged shortly as contracts are handed out and we see what we have through some play, but I'm not seeing much hype around the guys we've picked. That's 9 for 29, with arguably the best selection playing for another team, and our minor league affiliate bereft of even AHL quality players. Good drafting should at least have your minor league team well stocked at all times. It sure would have been nice to not have to see Treliving go out and sign a bunch of junk to fill out the lower part of the roster and instead have some bodies from the minors to be able to step in. If swinging for the fences means having a minor league affiliate without bodies to support the NHL squad, our scouts need some batting cage time and some instruction on hitting the gaps. Too many fly balls out of this group IMO.

I don't get the Fox thing. Even if they picked up on any reluctance to sign - that's still tremendous value from a 3rd round pick.

The rest of your overview is largely spun to suit your narrative (9 for 29 when most of the picks are too early to tell)

The problem has been lack of picks. With the picks they've had - they've done well in my view.

[1qqaaz]

I hate picking players with low ceilings in the first round. Even if they're otherwise all-around and would be great on the lower lines.

If someone projects to be a great third liner, the best case scenario is that you barely break even in terms of value for your late 1st round pick. How many 3rd line forwards in the NHL are worth a late 1st in the first place? Only the best.

If you're drafting in the first round, you must draft someone who can conceivably a top 6 forward,, a top 4 defensemen, or a 1A goalie. Otherwise the payoff just isn't there. Add the fact that depth players can easily be signed or acquired, and it makes even less sense.

Potential. That's the name of the game.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't get the Fox thing. Even if they picked up on any reluctance to sign - that's still tremendous value from a 3rd round pick.

Just like Tom Erixon was not a good pick because of his bias, Fox falls into the same category. You invest resources into your organization, not others, so you want that investment to payoff for your team. If a guy says he has no interest in your team you shouldn't draft him. If a player says they have a predisposition to playing in only one city, you don't draft him. That is why you interview prospective draft picks. Get a sense of where their heads are and bring in players that have a desire to make your team better.

The rest of your overview is largely spun to suit your narrative (9 for 29 when most of the picks are too early to tell)

Spun it? Jesus, I didn't even include the last three drafts in those numbers so the results wouldn't be skewed. I figured if you aren't on the verge after draft +4 that is a pretty good indicator of not having it in you. So I don't see spin here. That was being fair. When picks are falling out of the system for a draft I think it is far to say that draft is coming to its cycle completion, no?

The problem has been lack of picks. With the picks they've had - they've done well in my view.

We agree here. Treliving places little to no value on draft picks and tosses them around like Washingtons at a strip club. We need to retain as many picks as possible for the scouts to get it done.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Just like Tom Erixon was not a good pick because of his bias, Fox falls into the same category. You invest resources into your organization, not others, so you want that investment to payoff for your team. If a guy says he has no interest in your team you shouldn't draft him. If a player says they have a predisposition to playing in only one city, you don't draft him. That is why you interview prospective draft picks. Get a sense of where their heads are and bring in players that have a desire to make your team better.



Spun it? Jesus, I didn't even include the last three drafts in those numbers so the results wouldn't be skewed. I figured if you aren't on the verge after draft +4 that is a pretty good indicator of not having it in you. So I don't see spin here. That was being fair. When picks are falling out of the system for a draft I think it is far to say that draft is coming to its cycle completion, no?



We agree here. Treliving places little to no value on draft picks and tosses them around like Washingtons at a strip club. We need to retain as many picks as possible for the scouts to get it done.

I’m not sure if many players that do what Fox and Erixon did would mention in their pre-draft interviews that they in tend to only sign with a certain team. These kids just want to get drafted… and get drafted as high as possible. And they are kids being interviewed by NHL scouts and GMs… it would take a very confident/cocky kid to blatantly tell them in an interview before even be informed drafted that they don’t want to play for your NHL team.

It’s much easier 2-3 years after being drafted and having agents/advisors to communicate your intentions to the team.


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[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Ok, this is not a fair post, and it may come back to haunt me...
If there was ever a name in a draft that reminded me of a Rico Fata, this is it.
Just dammit... Chaz Lucius reminds me of Rico Fata.

Haha that was my exact thought as I was getting caught up in this thread, Chaz Lucius screams bust to me and it is all because of his name. Mind you the strategy of picking good hockey names (ie Greg McKegg) wouldn't have worked out to well.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

It kind of seems like Oskar Olausson might be one of the biggest wildcards in the draft.
He could go pretty much anywhere in the first round. Oskar Olausson has the natural tools to succeed in the NHL, but it seems like proper development is crucial. Get that consistency and awareness down.

Do you know how he looked in the international tournaments?

I confess that I didn’t notice him much in the WJC, probably because he wasn’t used much, but I have seen a lot of video of him from Sweden-and I love this kid. It’s fun to watch him skate and stickhandle, and he can really shoot. He’s going to be a fine offensive weapon in the NHL.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Just like Tom Erixon was not a good pick because of his bias, Fox falls into the same category. You invest resources into your organization, not others, so you want that investment to payoff for your team. If a guy says he has no interest in your team you shouldn't draft him. If a player says they have a predisposition to playing in only one city, you don't draft him. That is why you interview prospective draft picks. Get a sense of where their heads are and bring in players that have a desire to make your team better.
.

Ok but Fox was drafted with a third and eventually traded (by Carolina but a gauge of approx value) - for two seconds.
That's good ROI in my view.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Just like Tom Erixon was not a good pick because of his bias, Fox falls into the same category. You invest resources into your organization, not others, so you want that investment to payoff for your team. If a guy says he has no interest in your team you shouldn't draft him. If a player says they have a predisposition to playing in only one city, you don't draft him. That is why you interview prospective draft picks. Get a sense of where their heads are and bring in players that have a desire to make your team better.

Not sure I agree here.

Fox was probably a guy that should have been a 1st round talent but was available in the third round.

You don't let these players just tell you that they won't play for you, make them prove it.

And even then if they still don't want to play for you, as long as you are right that the player you drafted is really a great player, then you up your value.

Worst case Fox was a 3rd round pick that ended up having the equivalent value of two 2nd round picks. Either way that's a win. Of course it would have been a much better win had he decided to play here, but in the end the net outcome of that pick is still positive.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ok but Fox was drafted with a third and eventually traded (by Carolina but a gauge of approx value) - for two seconds.
That's good ROI in my view.

And that was a team who knew he was going to sign with them and only them paid 2 seconds to get him one year early.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Just like Tom Erixon was not a good pick because of his bias, Fox falls into the same category. You invest resources into your organization, not others, so you want that investment to payoff for your team. If a guy says he has no interest in your team you shouldn't draft him. If a player says they have a predisposition to playing in only one city, you don't draft him. That is why you interview prospective draft picks. Get a sense of where their heads are and bring in players that have a desire to make your team better...

You don't actually believe that an NHL team has the wherewithal to interview EVERY potentially drafted player, do you? That's ridiculous. Teams generally get the opportunity to conduct interviews at the combine each year, but there are only 104 players invited. Did Fox even go? I seriously doubt it.

Your blaming the organisation for a shortcoming that is essentially impossible to overcome: "Just conduct more interviews!" Yeah, good luck with that.

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[1qqaaz]

When exactly are you allowed to interview? Is it just around the combine? Or is it the draft as well? Or is it any time of year?

If it were any time of year, which I don't think it is, it could be reasonable to have lower-level scouts interview every single draft eligible prospect.
But I'm pretty sure that you can only do actual interviews during the combine. And there simply isn't enough time at that point to interview most players.

[sureLoss]

No limitations on interviews.

Only limitation is on physical testing.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not sure I agree here.

Fox was probably a guy that should have been a 1st round talent but was available in the third round.

You don't let these players just tell you that they won't play for you, make them prove it.

And even then if they still don't want to play for you, as long as you are right that the player you drafted is really a great player, then you up your value.

Worst case Fox was a 3rd round pick that ended up having the equivalent value of two 2nd round picks. Either way that's a win. Of course it would have been a much better win had he decided to play here, but in the end the net outcome of that pick is still positive.

Make them prove it? Kind of like how he did and forced the Flames to include him in a package to acquire two players for the price of three? You would think they would have learned after Erixon. You also don't get to say that Fox was worth two seconds, because that's not what Calgary got. They included him in a trade where Carolina was then able to recoup two seconds. Calgary got Lindholm and Hanifin out of the deal, but they lost out on a player that could have been worth a lot more except for the fact he had no interest in playing in Calgary. A little due diligence goes a long way.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You don't actually believe that an NHL team has the wherewithal to interview EVERY potentially drafted player, do you? That's ridiculous. Teams generally get the opportunity to conduct interviews at the combine each year, but there are only 104 players invited. Did Fox even go? I seriously doubt it.

Your blaming the organisation for a shortcoming that is essentially impossible to overcome: "Just conduct more interviews!" Yeah, good luck with that.

What do you think scouts do? Just sit in the stands and watch hockey games? You don't think these guys talk with players, their parents, their coaches, or their team mates to get insight into these kids? If a player is high on their list, or they have serious interest in the player, they are going to talk with him and get as much insight as possible. The combine is but one opportunity to do that. You're talking possible million dollar investments. If the team isn't doing their due diligence it's run by morons.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again what is the issue with the pick.
Chances are, if they had drafted someone other than Fox, they would not have had the value he did - when he was dealt.
This is an odd argument. They extracted great value out of a 3rd rounder by using him in a package for two core players.

And we are complaining about that?
I mean they could have drafted Joey Anderson (second most GPs in that 3rd round) and they'd have....Joey Anderson.
Win?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Make them prove it? Kind of like how he did and forced the Flames to include him in a package to acquire two players for the price of three? You would think they would have learned after Erixon. You also don't get to say that Fox was worth two seconds, because that's not what Calgary got. They included him in a trade where Carolina was then able to recoup two seconds. Calgary got Lindholm and Hanifin out of the deal, but they lost out on a player that could have been worth a lot more except for the fact he had no interest in playing in Calgary. A little due diligence goes a long way.

Lol two players for the price of three like the quantity of players in the deal has any baring on the quality of value received.

And 100% you can say Fox was worth 2 seconds. I don’t care that Calgary didn’t get two seconds for him, that was still his value in a trade. The Flames just choose to include him in a trade that they thought was good value for them instead since it brought back two former top 5 picks that were the right age for this core.

What player could that have taken in the third round that would have brought more value than Fox in either the Hanifin/Lindholm trade, or as two seconds?

Any way you slice it Fox was the best value pick in the third round and I’d much rather they select a player like him they can use as a trade piece even if he refuses to sign instead of any other 3rd rounder that year.

Maybe you’d have a point if it’s a first rounder (like Erixon) but even then unless there are two players that you feel are close in skill then you take the best player available if one is clearly better. Look at Lindros and the Nordiques. Based on your logic Quebec should have just taken Pat Falloon instead.

[Sandman]

RHD Martin Schreiber,6'2"176lbs (Linkoping J20):15gp/1g/6a/7pts,33PIM. His positive play earned him 13 games in the SHL. I just watched a shift-by-shift video, and I'm very impressed by his combination of size, skating, physicality, and poise under pressure. He uses his size well in puck-battles, and 1-on-1 situations. Moves quite well, can cut and turn quickly to shake off forecheckers, and can control smaller and speedier players by keeping them boxed out. Keeps his stick active, and has a great pokecheck. Plays physical, and battles along the boards and in front of the net-keeps the goalie's field of vision clear. Excellent PKer. When opponents start the breakout, he pinches in a good way-proactively shutting them down. Nice gap control, fast when skating backwards-he reads the game well, and doesn't get caught out of position. Good puck control and stickhandling. Offense is still a work in progress-it's definitely there, as evidenced by his impressive passing game. He can start breakouts and transitions quickly, with smart, accurate passes. He has a good shot, but needs to make it harder, and quicker. Projects as a bottom-4 two-way guy, who kills penalties. Rounds 5-7.

C Danil Grigoryev,6'5"198lbs (Irbis Kazan,MHL): 54gp/16g/11a/27pts, 2nd on his team. Huge guy with good mobility, although his skating gets some mixed reviews due to his hunched-over stride, and strange mechanics that mess with his balance-but some say he still moves well, despite this. Danil has elite puck-control skills, and it's almost impossible to take the puck from him when he's carrying. Protects the puck extremely well, and uses his reach to his advantage. Works the net front in the offensive zone, being a tough assignment to check, and scores garbage goals, rebounds, and tips. High compete workhorse who does a bit of everything-uses his size and reach to win battles, and has tremendous passing skills including a nice, consistent entry pass. Grigoryev is known for his steady, structured 200 ft game, and for the way he makes an impact at both ends of the ice, but it's his defensive awareness that's his specialty-and the part of his game that might be his ticket to the NHL. He's an especially smart player in the defensive zone, and breaks up plays with his strength, reach, physicality, and acute vision. This is a player I see rising on mocks and draft lists, and it may be because of his high floor as a defensive center in the NHL. 5th/6th round, maybe?

RW Ivan Bjorkly Nordstrom,6'7"216lbs (Malmo J20): 16gp/6g/6a/12pts,12PIM. People may point to the fact that he missed last year's draft by only a few days as being a negative, but he still brings a tantalizing toolkit. IBN's skating is surprisingly good for a kid his size-I listened to a podcast, where a scout said that he skates like a guy who's 5'10". Hard not to get giddy about that alone. He still battles hard in danger areas, and is a dominating presence in front of the net. Strong on the puck-it's hard to take from him when he's skating with it-but still has the skill to deke and dangle around defenders, with his stickhandling. Nice hands to pass or shoot, and has a solid shot with a quick release. Huge handful when driving the net. This kid is still quite raw-he has plenty of tools, but is still trying to find the toolbox, and if/when he does, look out! IBN will need a few years in Sweden to get his game together. He needs to continue getting stronger, and keep working on his skating-his balance and agility will get better with age and by furthering his strength. 6th/7th round.

LW Arvid Sundin,5'11"179lbs (Brynas J20): 15gp/6g/1a/7pts, along with 1pt in 7 games at the U-18s in a checking role. This kid has high compete-plays with speed, and is like a tasmanian devil on ice. He can outskate his peers, just by the way he pumps his legs hard, and keeps his feet moving. Wins most races for dump-ins and loose pucks-challenges opponents in all facets of the game with his speed. Nice set of hands, he attacks the net fishing for rebounds. He's much more meticulous with his passing game, and has patience in searching for the right outlet. Sundin can easily handle a checking role, as he gives 100% in his backcheck, and works hard grinding in all 3 zones. Wins the battles along the walls, and creates turnovers in every area of the ice with his body and stick-allows little to no time to be creative. Very physical-he likes to remind the competition that he's there. He makes life miserable for his opponents, and plays the pest role. Gets plenty of PK time. Some say Sundin has a bit of a limited hockey sense offensively, but I think it's too early to say that-and even if it is true, he still has a high floor, and could possibly make it as a checker in the NHL. He's still only 17, and won't turn 18 until August, so he's more potential than finished product. He has very good body strength for a kid his size, but he will need to keep building on it, if he hopes to play his game at the next level. He needs to also develop the strength of his shot. Rounds 6/7.

C/W Dmitri Zugan,5'11"185lbs (Krasniya Armiya Moskva, MHL): 61gp/16g/24a/40pts, was rewarded with a game in the KHL. This kid could be a sleeper-he often plays the highest minutes of all the forwards on his team, as his game is so responsible and well-rounded. He plays with pace, reads the play extremely well, and for as good an offensive weapon he is, has top-tier defensive awareness. He's often the best player on the ice, and is calm and poised in high-pressure situations. Tremendous IQ and vision, he always has his head on a swivel, making himself an option for passes, or feeding the slot for high-danger opportunities. Forechecks hard, slicing through gaps, and unleashing his hard, heavy shot. Dizzle is a blazing fast skater, who can outrun opponents or use his edgework to separate. He can switch to the backcheck quickly, even from behind the opposition's net, and his speed can break apart even the stiffest defensive structure. Superb at defending the cycle, especially on the PK. He employs a quick, smart stick to disrupt plays, and has good puck control, puck protection, and stickhandling. Sky-high compete and determination, he's focused and patient, and consistently makes good decisions that turn the tide of the play for his team-shift in, shift out. Doesn't shy away from playing a physical game-he supports his teammate in battle, engages in front of the net, gets his nose dirty in 50/50 battles, and beats bigger and stronger guys. Exhibits defensive prowess blocking shots, clogging lanes, breaking up plays, and killing entries-making his game much more translatable to the NHL. If he doesn't fit in your top-6, he can easily be a third-line defensive player who chips in offense, and plays on special teams. There's questions about his offensive ceiling at the next level, but he's put up numbers everywhere he's been. Look for him in the late 3rd/4th round.

[Sandman]

LHD Carson Lambos.6'1"201lbs (Winnipeg,WHL) 2019-20: 57gp/8g/24a/32pts,32PIM, fantastic numbers for his D-1 year, top D-man for the Ice, and only 6 points down from Brandt Clarke. 2nd overall in the 2018 WHL Bantam Draft. Went across the pond this year to play for JYP J20 in Finland, where he put up 11pts in 13 games, first for players under 18 in p/gp, and ahead of players like Suomi, Heimosalmi, Ervasti, and Juusola. Came back home, but only got 2 games before sustaining a season-ending leg injury, that the team called a "Medical Procedure". Lambos is a two-way, all-situations minute muncher, with superb skill and anticipation.

Lambos has excellent skating ability, a notch or two down from elite, but good enough to skate the puck out of the defensive zone, past forecheckers. Great first-step, and acceleration, making top-speed in just a few strides. Same skill applies to his backwards mobility, aiding in his superb gap control. Fantastic mobility in all directions, and nice agility and edgework in walking the line. Lambos has top-notch vision and IQ-his passes are accurate to teammates in high-danger areas, or across the ice to open space. In the offensive zone he moves laterally, scanning for open lanes to pass or shoot-his decision-making is a big asset. Pinches to create offense, get a wrister on net from the circle, or simply just keep the puck alive in the zone. He has excellent power in his slap-shot and his one-timer, a quick and accurate wrister, and he consistently gets it on net-and much of the time, low and hard for rebounds. Lambos makes a good first-pass, and passes well in exits and entries, but often defers to his teammates to carry the puck out in transition, joining the rush as a trailer, and attacking open lanes.

Carson has an exceptionally strong two-way game, and elite shut-down skills. His defensive game is well-developed, and made better by spending the least amount of time in his own zone as possible, and turning defense into offense quickly-he simply turns the play back up the ice as soon as he gets hold of it. Tough to beat in 1-on-1s, he forces opponents to the boards and away from high-danger. Superb positionally, stays between his man and the net, but can sometimes take himself out of the play momentarily with one of his thunderous hits. Clogs passing and shooting lanes with his body and stick-he's not afraid to sacrifice by blocking shots. He's very strong on the puck, and wins battles on the wall, corners, and net-front. Plays the typical, Western-Canadian physical game, and will eliminate puck-carriers in open ice, or along the boards. He also gets good grades for his stickhandling.

Lambos doesn't have many flaws in his game, but he will most likely need more time in junior, as he hasn't played a whole lot of games this past year, and is recovering from an injury. If there's an issue to nitpick, it may be his distribution in the offensive zone, as he sometimes prefers to shoot in order to create offense and havok around the net, as opposed to finding teammates sticks. Not a huge issue. This kid has been compared to Pietrangelo-good two-way workhorse, who can shut down offensive players. Top-pairing player in the making.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again what is the issue with the pick.
Chances are, if they had drafted someone other than Fox, they would not have had the value he did - when he was dealt.
This is an odd argument. They extracted great value out of a 3rd rounder by using him in a package for two core players.

And we are complaining about that?
I mean they could have drafted Joey Anderson (second most GPs in that 3rd round) and they'd have....Joey Anderson.
Win?

Yeah exactly...

I hope Calgary drafts an all star that won't play for them in the third round every year!

Win win win

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Sandman

LHD Carson Lambos.6'1"201lbs (Winnipeg,WHL) 2019-20: 57gp/8g/24a/32pts,32PIM, fantastic numbers for his D-1 year, top D-man for the Ice, and only 6 points down from Brandt Clarke. 2nd overall in the 2018 WHL Bantam Draft. Went across the pond this year to play for JYP J20 in Finland, where he put up 11pts in 13 games, first for players under 18 in p/gp, and ahead of players like Suomi, Heimosalmi, Ervasti, and Juusola. Came back home, but only got 2 games before sustaining a season-ending leg injury, that the team called a "Medical Procedure". Lambos is a two-way, all-situations minute muncher, with superb skill and anticipation.

Lambos has excellent skating ability, a notch or two down from elite, but good enough to skate the puck out of the defensive zone, past forecheckers. Great first-step, and acceleration, making top-speed in just a few strides. Same skill applies to his backwards mobility, aiding in his superb gap control. Fantastic mobility in all directions, and nice agility and edgework in walking the line. Lambos has top-notch vision and IQ-his passes are accurate to teammates in high-danger areas, or across the ice to open space. In the offensive zone he moves laterally, scanning for open lanes to pass or shoot-his decision-making is a big asset. Pinches to create offense, get a wrister on net from the circle, or simply just keep the puck alive in the zone. He has excellent power in his slap-shot and his one-timer, a quick and accurate wrister, and he consistently gets it on net-and much of the time, low and hard for rebounds. Lambos makes a good first-pass, and passes well in exits and entries, but often defers to his teammates to carry the puck out in transition, joining the rush as a trailer, and attacking open lanes.

Carson has an exceptionally strong two-way game, and elite shut-down skills. His defensive game is well-developed, and made better by spending the least amount of time in his own zone as possible, and turning defense into offense quickly-he simply turns the play back up the ice as soon as he gets hold of it. Tough to beat in 1-on-1s, he forces opponents to the boards and away from high-danger. Superb positionally, stays between his man and the net, but can sometimes take himself out of the play momentarily with one of his thunderous hits. Clogs passing and shooting lanes with his body and stick-he's not afraid to sacrifice by blocking shots. He's very strong on the puck, and wins battles on the wall, corners, and net-front. Plays the typical, Western-Canadian physical game, and will eliminate puck-carriers in open ice, or along the boards. He also gets good grades for his stickhandling.

Lambos doesn't have many flaws in his game, but he will most likely need more time in junior, as he hasn't played a whole lot of games this past year, and is recovering from an injury. If there's an issue to nitpick, it may be his distribution in the offensive zone, as he sometimes prefers to shoot in order to create offense and havok around the net, as opposed to finding teammates sticks. Not a huge issue. This kid has been compared to Pietrangelo-good two-way workhorse, who can shut down offensive players. Top-pairing player in the making.

Did his injury require knee surgery?