Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Unreal. In Alberta, didn't we have the most residential schools? I would think that the numbers are going to be extremely disgusting as things are investigated.

I get the feeling that Kenney and Co will not be cooperative in any Albertan investigations into unmarked graves.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[burn_this_city]

To Kenney's credit he put up $8MM to search the former schools here.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I get the feeling that Kenney and Co will not be cooperative in any Albertan investigations into unmarked graves.

Maybe I'm wrong.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-...aves-1.5482355

[The Fonz]

My apologies, I'm happy to be proven wrong/ignorant

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Does it matter what faith it is?

White people spent 500 years trying to coerce non-white people what faith to believe in. Have we not learned our lesson?

Live and let live.

White people in the 21st century telling Indigenous folks that their current faith (be it Christian or otherwise) is a problem, just like it was 100 years ago.

We've already been over this, a month ago, and I'm not sure if you forgot or you simply chose to quietly ignore it instead of actually processing it, but all you're doing is playing identity politics.

Criticism of Catholicism, or referring to indoctrination, can and should happen regardless of one's race. You're posturing as though you have some dispute with "the white man telling indigenous folks what to do," yet here you are infantilizing an entire race of people, saying that one of the faiths they believe in (which is shared by people of many other races and backgrounds) should be protected from the same criticism one would apply to followers of the same faith but a different race.

How about you, a presumable white man, treat indigenous people as your equal? Would that be ok? Criticism of Catholicism is criticism of a religion, not of a race of people, and can and should apply regardless of the race of the follower, unless you think of them as somehow lesser than someone of a different race who follows that same religion. Which would be insane.

[redforever]

I am not sure where this link belongs but it was written in response to finding the remains of these children.

It was a "Letter to John A Macdonald" written by Chris Sankey. Rob Breakenridge interviewed this gentleman within the last week...very good interview...very worthwhile finding in the archives to listen to.

Anyhow, the interview was in response to the letter in this link.

https://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/a-le...inside-policy/

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

We've already been over this, a month ago, and I'm not sure if you forgot or you simply chose to quietly ignore it instead of actually processing it, but all you're doing is playing identity politics.

Criticism of Catholicism, or referring to indoctrination, can and should happen regardless of one's race. You're posturing as though you have some dispute with "the white man telling indigenous folks what to do," yet here you are infantilizing an entire race of people, saying that one of the faiths they believe in (which is shared by people of many other races and backgrounds) should be protected from the same criticism one would apply to followers of the same faith but a different race.

How about you, a presumable white man, treat indigenous people as your equal? Would that be ok? Criticism of Catholicism is criticism of a religion, not of a race of people, and can and should apply regardless of the race of the follower, unless you think of them as somehow lesser than someone of a different race who follows that same religion. Which would be insane.

I would, and do, treat them as equal. Because they are.

But do we just forget the historical context of the white man lecturing the Indigenous man on faith matters? It was a very dark timeline for this country.

Frankly, I'm not one to lecture anyone on their faith or atheism, but in the case of criticizing the faith of Indigenous people, I would especially stay far, far away from that as a white person.

Call it identity politics I guess, but I'm not sure it would be socially acceptable for a German person, descended from THOSE Germans, to criticize the absurdities of Judaism to a Jew. I see this as the same thing.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1408081091546730498

Might be time to upgrade the thread title.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Call it identity politics I guess, but I'm not sure it would be socially acceptable for a German person, descended from THOSE Germans, to criticize the absurdities of Judaism to a Jew.

Yes it would. The ethnicity of their ancestors has nothing to do with their criticisms. Completely irrelevant. Bringing it up would be not only an obvious ad hominem but a totally empty one. Pepsi is 100% correct.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

My only hope is that these atrocities are a call to action to help indigenous people in canada right now by improving their living conditions, education etc. I'm admittedly incredibly pessimistic that public attention will only go so far as thoughts and prayers but will stop short of meaningful action and that any funds earmarked will not go to where they are needed.

[Mr.Coffee]

It’s a government of Canada problem and a Catholic Church problem. Both are culpable no way getting around it now.

Canada provided the edict and Catholic Church the agent carrying things out.

[81MC]

I don’t mean this as discounting the number of bodies or lives lost or anything.

I’m curious if these residential schools were erected at traditional ceremonial or grave sites, and if there’s a way to identify the age of remains without exhumation? It wasn’t abnormal, afaik, for colonizers to not only destroy traditional/indigenous sites, but to defile the sites with the erection of their establishments.

I suppose it’s largely irrelevant, but I’m curious.

[Oling_Roachinen]

They aren't really stumbling across these sites, they pretty much knew they were there and these are experts doing this. And by counting out the 700+ remains, you would think they would have encountered adult skeletons as well to create redflags if this was previously a burial site unrelated to the residential schools.

[MoneyGuy]

Close to 1,000 sets of remains located so far. There will be many thousands (maybe tens of thousands) when all are located. Tragic.

[GGG]

Nm

[GGG]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I don’t mean this as discounting the number of bodies or lives lost or anything.

I’m curious if these residential schools were erected at traditional ceremonial or grave sites, and if there’s a way to identify the age of remains without exhumation? It wasn’t abnormal, afaik, for colonizers to not only destroy traditional/indigenous sites, but to defile the sites with the erection of their establishments.

I suppose it’s largely irrelevant, but I’m curious.

I’m not sure it matters that much if we over or undercount. There are 3200 deaths that have been documented through other means out of about 150,000 victims of residential schools. So in terms of being concerns that the dead bodies shouldn’t count doesn’t really make a difference to the end conclusion

The government attempted to destroy First Nations culture and did not particularly care if children lived or died.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Yes they do.

Edit: NM, edited.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It’s a government of Canada problem and a Catholic Church problem. Both are culpable no way getting around it now.

Canada provided the edict and Catholic Church the agent carrying things out.

I’m not trying to defend the Catholic Church at all, but IMO the majority of the blame lies on who gave them the authority to commit these atrocities.

The Catholic Church ran schools for non-indigenous kids at the same time but to my knowledge there is no evidence that similar results occurred at those institutions.

The Catholic Church however still deserves 100% of the blame for their role in convering it up what they did and refusing to accept any responsibility to this day.

[carmenshoes]

This is very, very shameful how could our governments not check or supervise what was going on there?

[Hack&Lube]

My question is what happened to all these kids? Did they die of neglect? Malnutrition? Were they beaten to death for disobedience?

Are there no records at all of these schools and what occurred for a century?