Calgary Flames 21-22 Roster speculation

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Over the edge in the way some people are valuing players or just so jaded in their outlook. Like years of mediocrity have pushed them over the edge into hot take land.

I'm always so curious about what constitutes as a hot take in some people's eyes. Is it something you just don't agree with or something you just don't want to believe. Before last season, if someone said you could replace the entire Flames roster with prospects and they won't do much worse than the actual team, I'm sure everyone would call it a "hot take" because it just sounds untrue to everyone...at the time. If you think about it, that could have happened. The Flames got 8 points after everyone else had finished the regular season against a team that mailed it in. Without those points the Flames would have finished around where, 27th or so? And they were in the weakest division there has been in years. Now, some people want to just make 1 or 2 changes and think the team will be a contender? What makes more sense: if the Flames keep this roster as is, are they a bottom 5 team next year or in the playoffs? If they played with just prospects, would they do better than last year?

So because you don't agree with something, or don't want to, is it a hot take?

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm always so curious about what constitutes as a hot take in some people's eyes. Is it something you just don't agree with or something you just don't want to believe. Before last season, if someone said you could replace the entire Flames roster with prospects and they won't do much worse than the actual team, I'm sure everyone would call it a "hot take" because it just sounds untrue to everyone...at the time. If you think about it, that could have happened. The Flames got 8 points after everyone else had finished the regular season against a team that mailed it in. Without those points the Flames would have finished around where, 27th or so? And they were in the weakest division there has been in years. Now, some people want to just make 1 or 2 changes and think the team will be a contender? What makes more sense: if the Flames keep this roster as is, are they a bottom 5 team next year or in the playoffs? If they played with just prospects, would they do better than last year?



So because you don't agree with something, or don't want to, is it a hot take?

Are you suggesting the Flames would have lost 4/4 to Vancouver if it was mid-season? I'd say that's a pretty hot take. Also, they only won 3/4 vs VAN so the take isn't even based on facts.

Claiming that a team of prospects would have done nearly as well as the Flames did this year is also a hot take because it's ridiculous. Is it just the Flames specifically or do you think a team of prospects would be better than 1/3rd of the NHL?

Getting lost in the hyperbole about the team here is that they were closer to a playoff spot than they were to 27th. As Barry Trotz said it's a tight league and the difference between top teams and bubble teams is about one win a month.

As for your question, I think if they bring the same team back next season they are far more likely to make the playoffs than be bottom 5. Not even a hard call in my opinion, I'd be shocked if they bottomed out like that.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

A
As for your question, I think if they bring the same team back next season they are far more likely to make the playoffs than be bottom 5. Not even a hard call in my opinion, I'd be shocked if they bottomed out like that.

When you look at the competition in the Pacific, Calgary should be able to make the playoffs fairly routinely.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm always so curious about what constitutes as a hot take in some people's eyes. Is it something you just don't agree with or something you just don't want to believe. Before last season, if someone said you could replace the entire Flames roster with prospects and they won't do much worse than the actual team, I'm sure everyone would call it a "hot take" because it just sounds untrue to everyone...at the time. If you think about it, that could have happened. The Flames got 8 points after everyone else had finished the regular season against a team that mailed it in. Without those points the Flames would have finished around where, 27th or so? And they were in the weakest division there has been in years. Now, some people want to just make 1 or 2 changes and think the team will be a contender? What makes more sense: if the Flames keep this roster as is, are they a bottom 5 team next year or in the playoffs? If they played with just prospects, would they do better than last year?

So because you don't agree with something, or don't want to, is it a hot take?

You can take away "easy" games from every team in the league...always a terrible argument

[Goriders]

In my mind the flames aren’t as bad as everyone seems to think. They had a 8 or 10 game stretch before they fired the coach that sewered their season. If it was a regular 82 game sched I’m pretty confident they would have passed montreal. Probably the jets as well. I thought Ottawa and Calgary were two of the better teams in the north over the last dozen games or so.

Montreal is in the final 4. You can look at it however you want but even Trotz thinks along the lines of what I stated above. Anyone can beat anyone if one team doesn’t show up. That was the Flames problem in the first half of the year.

The Flames do need some roster moves. But so does almost every team in the league. It’s probably more abnormal to have no moves in the off season. Most teams I would guess turn over 25% of their roster as a minimum.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Goriders

In my mind the flames aren’t as bad as everyone seems to think. They had a 8 or 10 game stretch before they fired the coach that sewered their season. If it was a regular 82 game sched I’m pretty confident they would have passed montreal. Probably the jets as well. I thought Ottawa and Calgary were two of the better teams in the north over the last dozen games or so.

Montreal is in the final 4. You can look at it however you want but even Trotz thinks along the lines of what I stated above. Anyone can beat anyone if one team doesn’t show up. That was the Flames problem in the first half of the year.

The Flames do need some roster moves. But so does almost every team in the league. It’s probably more abnormal to have no moves in the off season. Most teams I would guess turn over 25% of their roster as a minimum.

I tend to agree. For a chunk of the season the Flames had issues slotting players that fit. Seems like they had 4 incomplete lines most of the season. Would be wonderful if a player could come in like Mangipane did in the WC to help slot players in the right place. It never seems like they had 4 lines that could roll. Hopefully they can make a move or someone comes out of the blue to help.

[Demetric]

I think Seattle will take either Ryan or Phillips or Oliver.

I would see about trading Monahan for Conner Brown +

Sign Danault

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Danault-Brown
?-Backlund-Dube
Lucic-?-?
Ritche

Giordano-Tanev
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Mackey

Markstrom
?

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I actually think it's the opposite.
Rebuilding teams can trade their best players away with cap retention.
One they have cap from trading people away, they have cap space to take on bad contracts.

All of this is incredibly valuable with the flat cap.

Add the fact that that Bedard and Michkov might be better than McDavid and Eichel, and this might be the best time possible to initiate a rebuild.

Don't get me wrong, the Flames obviously won't do it. But I think in terms of cap it would make more sense than people are letting on.

I 100% agree and if you look the Flames cap issues really aren't until next summer. If they were smart they could create $5-8 mil in cap space with a full roster before any trades. Pretty all their UFA's don't need to be brought back and none of their RFA's really can command a big raise. I would expect the following is fairly reasonable to assume

Gawdin - would accept 1 year 700k for a 1 way deal
Phillips - would accept 1 year 700 k for a 1 way deal
Mackey - would accept 1 year 700 k for a 1 way deal
Dube - would accept 1 year between $1-1.5 mil
Valimaki - would accept 1 year bewtween $1-1.5 mil
Kylingtom - would accept $850k on a 1 way deal

I also think the Flames could go for more PTO signing at league minimum as well.

I wouldn't QO Simon.

Sign a back up goalie for $1 mil

This would give the Flames a full roster and about $8 mil cap space. They could still choose to wrap up Dube and Valimaki for an extra year around $1.5 to $2 mil if they want and still have around $7 mil cap. If you look league wide and make trades to teams that are contenders and have cap issues you can retain salary or take bad contracts back to get a huge return. There are a lot of teams that have big time free agents and not a lot of cap space. Some of these teams are very good teams and won't have more than a handful of teams to trade with. Of course the Flames won't even consider all this but it would be the smart move.

Seattle could be walking into an even better situation than Vegas. Vegas almost pulled off a cup in year one so that is hard to match but Seattle could wrap up some young superstars and land a boat load of picks bailing out these teams this year.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Demetric

I think Seattle will take either Ryan or Phillips or Oliver.

I would see about trading Monahan for Conner Brown +

Sign Danault

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Danault-Brown
?-Backlund-Dube
Lucic-?-?
Ritche

Giordano-Tanev
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Mackey

Markstrom
?

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

I don't mind Monahan for Brown + if the plus is a 2nd or better. Brown is a good player and doesn't make a lot. I don't think it would a huge loss if you can a 2nd line center in a different trade or as a UFA

If the Flames fill out their 4th line with guys like Ruzicka, Phillips, Gawdin types and resign Valimaki and Dube short term for cheap they could have $8 mil in cap space before the Monahan trade. They would need to sign or trade for a center though. Danualt might be a good replacement for Monahan.

Also would need a goalie but I wouldn't spend too much on a back up this year

Cap the following summer will be tough to manage but Gio is coming off the books so even if Johnny, Tkachuk and Mang were to resign the combined raise might not be more than Gio contract. Replacing Gio will be tough with no cap though so they will need to leave some room to manage that next summer.

[SeanCharles]

Monahan for Brown?

Holy cr@p!

Brown is a 3rd line RW on any legitimate Cup contending team…

We are going to trade a top 6C for a 3rd line winger? Sweeten the deal with a 2nd rd pick?

What in tarnation?

If Brown and Mangiapane weren’t the top line in the WC would we even be talking about this nonsense?

I’d hope not but we probably would be.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Monahan for Brown?

Holy cr@p!

Brown is a 3rd line RW on any legitimate Cup contending team…

We are going to trade a top 6C for a 3rd line winger? Sweeten the deal with a 2nd rd pick?

What in tarnation?

If Brown and Mangiapane weren’t the top line in the WC would we even be talking about this nonsense?

I’d hope not but we probably would be.

Whoa whoa. Nobody's trading a top 6 center around here. They're trading a washed up, often injured and allegedly soft as warm butter coattail riding 3rd line center at best.

It's okay if you haven't been on CP in a while. Things have....changed.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Goriders

In my mind the flames aren’t as bad as everyone seems to think. They had a 8 or 10 game stretch before they fired the coach that sewered their season. If it was a regular 82 game sched I’m pretty confident they would have passed montreal. Probably the jets as well. I thought Ottawa and Calgary were two of the better teams in the north over the last dozen games or so.

Montreal is in the final 4. You can look at it however you want but even Trotz thinks along the lines of what I stated above. Anyone can beat anyone if one team doesn’t show up. That was the Flames problem in the first half of the year.

The Flames do need some roster moves. But so does almost every team in the league. It’s probably more abnormal to have no moves in the off season. Most teams I would guess turn over 25% of their roster as a minimum.

I am not sure I share the same confidence. We have seen it too many times with this core where certain players just are not invested enough; Even to the point of not putting in the effort to pass the team directly in front of them.

This team needs players who put in the effort night in and night out and not ones that run the asylum. If you watch Vegas every player is invested they all look like clones, where as Calgary's players couldn't be bothered. It is an ongoing problem that I suspect wont change unless the noxious entitlement gets dealt with.

I know some feel the team is not actually that bad, but as Sutter pointed out the team isn't very good especially when stacked up against other teams. We need to raise that bar and expectations a lot higher if we want to see a team that meets the standard. An elite center would be a good first step, either that or the players coming in have bring a lot more to the table.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I am not sure I share the same confidence. We have seen it too many times with this core where certain players just are not invested enough; Even to the point of not putting in the effort to pass the team directly in front of them.

This team needs players who put in the effort night in and night out and not ones that run the asylum. If you watch Vegas every player is invested they all look like clones, where as Calgary's players couldn't be bothered. It is an ongoing problem that I suspect wont change unless the noxious entitlement gets dealt with.

I know some feel the team is not actually that bad, but as Sutter pointed out the team isn't very good especially when stacked up against other teams. We need to raise that bar and expectations a lot higher if we want to see a team that meets the standard. An elite center would be a good first step, either that or the players coming in have bring a lot more to the table.

I think changing 5 or 6 off the starting lineup with 1 or 2 coming from the top 6 would get closer to what you’re thinking we need.

If I were picking it would be:

Monahan
Nesterov
Ritchie
Nordstrom (already gone)
Simon
Lievo

If you needed another top 6 I’d add in Tkachuk.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think changing 5 or 6 off the starting lineup with 1 or 2 coming from the top 6 would get closer to what you’re thinking we need.

If I were picking it would be:

Monahan
Nesterov
Ritchie
Nordstrom (already gone)
Simon
Lievo

If you needed another top 6 I’d add in Tkachuk.

Agreed, I think Tkachuk brings you the best return

Thinking back to when we got Bouwer and Neal, I believe had we have gotten better quality players at that point this team might be in a completely different spot now, and maybe with a lot less entitlement issues. If those players were hardworking leaders we might be looking at a playoff team.

Whoever is in charge of scouting doesn't seem to be pointing Brad toward players that fit the need, or move the needle. The players you listed are a prime example. Hopefully Darryl can help Brad nab decent players.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Whoa whoa. Nobody's trading a top 6 center around here. They're trading a washed up, often injured and allegedly soft as warm butter coattail riding 3rd line center at best.

It's okay if you haven't been on CP in a while. Things have....changed.

WOW

[NewFan]

I think this is perfect time to rebuild. Strong draft years coming, flat cap years, we still have some good trade assets to collect prospect and draft picks. I'm sure cap space will be one best trade chip while you playing young guys. Only problem is there few other teams going to rebuild too.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Whoa whoa. Nobody's trading a top 6 center around here. They're trading a washed up, often injured and allegedly soft as warm butter coattail riding 3rd line center at best.

It's okay if you haven't been on CP in a while. Things have....changed.

I think my problem is I’ve been here the whole time.

[UKflames]

Originally Posted by Teroy

I'm still in the trade Gaudreau/Gio column. You want to shake up the team, moving Monahan will not get it done.

These are the two to move imo as well. People on here seem to be forgetting that JG has this NTC clicking in soon and once that does we are totally handcuffed on his return, similar to Iggy, so say goodbye to anything meaningful as a return.We need a clear yes or no on the the new contract before that kicks in, if not get him gone. Don't ask me who for who, if I knew that I would be in Tre's job.

Time to move on from Gio and I think the expansion draft is the perfect opportunity. For those that say our D will suck without him, if your D sucks without one player you have bigger problems.

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Monahan for Brown?

Holy cr@p!

Brown is a 3rd line RW on any legitimate Cup contending team…

We are going to trade a top 6C for a 3rd line winger? Sweeten the deal with a 2nd rd pick?

In all seriousness... where would you slot Mony on any legitimate Cup contending team?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by playmaker

In all seriousness... where would you slot Mony on any legitimate Cup contending team?

As a winger.