3 adults and 1 teenager killed in London,On, targetted

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

So I have a question as I seethe words terrorism and Islam a phobia, but the article indicates that they have not yet connect the driver to any group.

How do we know that he would not have run over any family in that crosswalk? Or is this a case of it looks like a duck, talks like a duck?

The police state it pretty quickly, so I would have to think the that the murderer confessed his motive or left a note somewhere thinking he might not come back alive.

Just a guess, but usually the police wouldn't be so quick to out something like that if they didn't have evidence it was fact.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

So I have a question as I seethe words terrorism and Islam a phobia, but the article indicates that they have not yet connect the driver to any group.

How do we know that he would not have run over any family in that crosswalk? Or is this a case of it looks like a duck, talks like a duck?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...eted-1.6056238

Terrorism charges are also possible against Nathaniel Veltman, 20, of London, said Det.-Insp. Paul Waight at a news conference. Veltman appeared in court via video link Monday afternoon.

"There is evidence that this was a planned, premeditated act and that the family was targeted because of their Muslim faith," said Waight.

Now they haven't shared that evidence publicly to my knowledge, but it appears to be more than just fowl appearances...

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Wearing body armor and running over a Muslim family, it's pretty east to connect the dots.

I guess none of us are 100% sure he targeted them because of what they look like, but I'd be shocked if it was random, that he would have run over a white family going for a walk.

edit: just saw firebug's post. I don't think they'd say something like that without proof.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by firebug

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...eted-1.6056238



Now they haven't shared that evidence publicly to my knowledge, but it appears to be more than just fowl appearances...

Thanks, I read the link to the BBC story that did not mention the evidence

[CaptainCrunch]

In cases like this, and maybe its emotional, I'd have no trouble with a death penalty. If proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In cases like this, and maybe its emotional, I'd have no trouble with a death penalty. If proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

That's the rub: all death penalty cases are supposedly "proven" beyond a reasonable doubt, and yet many death row inmates in the US are still exonerated by DNA evidence.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Hard to put into words....just absolutely disgusted by it though.

What is wrong with some people? POS...

[Winsor_Pilates]

This is hard news to read about.
That poor family, RIP.

[troutman]

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...-tuesday-night

Tuesday’s vigial, organized by several Muslim organizations in the city, will be held in the parking lot of the London Muslim Mosque at 151 Oxford St. W. starting at 7 p.m. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Tuesday morning he will attend.

“What has happened in our London community has shocked us all. And yet, as we are shocked by this act of terror, we will not be intimidated. We will pray for our #OurLondonFamily. We will stand with #OurLondonFamily,” mosque officials wrote in a public invitation to the event.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That's the rub: all death penalty cases are supposedly "proven" beyond a reasonable doubt, and yet many death row inmates in the US are still exonerated by DNA evidence.

I'd be for a death penalty for extreme cases, like multiple murders that were planned out. It should be an incredibly high bar for the prosecution to reach, but in a case like this where there's no doubt as to who committed the crime and evidence that it was targeted I don't see any reason to keep that ####### alive. Same as the incel attacker in Toronto or the shooter in Nova Scotia. At least the cops were able to take out the last one to save everyone the trouble

[Jeff Lebowski]

I wonder if anyone else thinks if the roles were reversed and a Muslim ran over a family in Canada thus thread would be exploding with comments. Especially from some posters notorious for their volume of posts during similar events. Maybe waiting for all the facts.. Not surprising unfortunately.

Terrible tragedy for the survivor. I hope the community comes together for him.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If a Muslim targeted and ran over a white family of 5, killing 4 of them, yes I do believe it would be big news on this site and elsewhere. Why would it not be?

[FlamesAddiction]

Death penalty is moot obviously, but hopefully Ontario can at least apply consecutive sentencing to make sure he never gets out.

[DevilsAdvocate]

I suspect this will go the way of the mosque shooting in Quebec. Just call him a rogue one-off loon and not bother looking at where that rogue one-off loon learned his hatred.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

I suspect this will go the way of the mosque shooting in Quebec. Just call him a rogue one-off loon and not bother looking at where that rogue one-off loon learned his hatred.

Seems like it's all called one-off loons.The van attack in Ontario, the parliament shootings, the police shootings in Atlantic Canada, the Muslim shootings etc....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

I suspect this will go the way of the mosque shooting in Quebec. Just call him a rogue one-off loon and not bother looking at where that rogue one-off loon learned his hatred.

I would hope not, but I have very little faith in the system to be honest. I was seething when I saw this news, its despicable and disgusting and clearly a crime based on hate and ignorance. However a scumbag is still entitled to a vigorous defense, and I assume that we'll all be infuriated about the prospect of a mental health defense, or the perp crying that he was abused as a child. I don't care. You made a decision to hate. You made a decision to stare at that family and put your foot on the gas pedal. That's on you, that's your choice. But hate is hate no matter what.



Now I do want to roll back my death penalty comment. But I do think I would be in favor of life in prison at hard labor. 8 hours a day crushing boulders into gravel and scrubbing porta potties.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I wonder if anyone else thinks if the roles were reversed and a Muslim ran over a family in Canada thus thread would be exploding with comments. Especially from some posters notorious for their volume of posts during similar events. Maybe waiting for all the facts.. Not surprising unfortunately.

Terrible tragedy for the survivor. I hope the community comes together for him.

Anecdotally at least, the opposite appears to be true. The police and media are often slow to identify non-white suspects. Hate/Terrorism charges also tend to come later and more quietly.

I suspect this is intended to minimize retribution against minority communities.

From a journalism (and politics) standpoint, it's a lot easier to jump on the terrorism angle quickly. Nobody gets fired for calling a white perp a terrorist quickly. But journalists and politicians have to tread carefully by immediately jumping on a terrorism angle with respect to a visible minority lest they be described as racist, etc. I don't like this angle, and it is supremely cynical - but it is what it is.

[bigtmac19]

The vigil last night, too many politicians. I would assume they were invited, but not sure. The speakers from the Muslim community were much better. It was nice to see the large crowd out to support the family and those grieving.

A man was interviewed on the local news, his comment was "this is not the London I know" - well yeah - because you are white and blissfully unaware of what these communities suffer on a daily basis. This is what has to start changing. Something I'm guilty of in my life too, blind ignorance, but am trying to educate myself and do better.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Death penalty is moot obviously, but hopefully Ontario can at least apply consecutive sentencing to make sure he never gets out.

I don't think you can consecutive sentence in Canada.

Can this guy Dangerous Offender Status, which keeps in him indefinitely (but I still think he gets regulars reviews of that status)?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

The vigil last night, too many politicians. I would assume they were invited, but not sure. The speakers from the Muslim community were much better. It was nice to see the large crowd out to support the family and those grieving.

A man was interviewed on the local news, his comment was "this is not the London I know" - well yeah - because you are white and blissfully unaware of what these communities suffer on a daily basis. This is what has to start changing. Something I'm guilty of in my life too, blind ignorance, but am trying to educate myself and do better.

Don't beat yourself up, you're one of the nicest people here that always recognize these issues.

You are right this isn't new. The media like to parade out that there are more incidents and the racists are more confident. No its not, you're just noticing now to fit your narrative. Like the uptick in racism against Asians due to COVID. That's not true. Racists were already racists, that just went unreported until it was no longer unreportedable (caught on camera) and the media thought up a connection.