Yeah, that was a pretty dumb tweet. Hopefully they are still working out something better and more official than a tweet anyway. Even if it was an apology, doing it in a tweet would be pretty lame. The message and the medium were insufficient to put it kindly. I have to believe that being in meetings with Canadian cardinals and bishops for more than a day would end in more than just a tweet.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Yeah, that was a pretty dumb tweet. Hopefully they are still working out something better and more official than a tweet anyway. Even if it was an apology, doing it in a tweet would be pretty lame. The message and the medium were insufficient to put it kindly. I have to believe that being in meetings with Canadian cardinals and bishops for more than a day would end in more than just a tweet.
"OK, this looks really bad for us. All of our options are bad. What's the absolute least we can do to address this?"
"How about a tweet that doesn't admit or say anything?"
"Perfect, do that. Now lets go roll around in the treasury to relax for a bit."
The Following User Says Thank You to Fuzz For This Useful Post:
One issue is that religion based on evangelizing and converting are based on cultural extinction. The goal is to “save” people by converting them away from there heathen beliefs and behaviours.
At best an apology would be for the conditions and treatment but I don’t think they can apologize for the overarching goal of eliminating Aboriginal spiritualism (apologies if that’s not the right term) as they still believe in it.
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
I arrived here in 2003 and became a citizen in 2009.
As part of the citizenship test we were issued a government study guide to familiarize us with our new country. Among other things it included parts on its peoples, regions, symbols, economy and history.
Nowhere in that booklet was there any mention of the residential school system. Just checking on it now, there still is no mention of it.
I would hope that maybe the government might, as ugly as it is, see fit to add this significant part of its history to its guide for future newcomers to Canada so at least there is some awareness among them of the suffering imposed by this system. Like it or not and as ugly as it is, it is part of our history and something every newcomer to this country needs to be made aware of.
I'll echo the words of a good friend of mine from back home that I was talking to regarding this story who said I have increasing respect for indigenous groups and increasing realization about the bs we were fed about them in movies growing up.
__________________
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bagor For This Useful Post:
The discovery of these bodies was a surprise to me, as I'm sure it was to many people. But it really shouldn't have been. A friend of mine explained that this isn't anything new and pointed me to the 273 page volume produced by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission on Missing Children and Unmarked Burials from 2016 (you can find it here: https://nctr.ca/records/reports/)
I was blown away. These mass graves are all over Canada. Not long ago, in High River, they had to move one of the unmarked graveyards because river erosion was exposing children's bones and washing them downstream. There is an unmarked gravesite in Red Deer that is known to have 200 kids in it. The report also makes clear that the government is to blame for underfunding and underregulating the schools.
I feel like a complete idiot. This information was everywhere and I still had no idea. Harper apologized publicly for residential schools in 2008, for god's sake. 23 years later, I'm shocked to hear about these 215 kids? That's crazy. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in Canada, but it is to a lot of us. I was never taught any of this in school but I'm glad that kids are learning history now.
The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to wireframe For This Useful Post:
I arrived here in 2003 and became a citizen in 2009.
As part of the citizenship test we were issued a government study guide to familiarize us with our new country. Among other things it included parts on its peoples, regions, symbols, economy and history.
Nowhere in that booklet was there any mention of the residential school system. Just checking on it now, there still is no mention of it.
I would hope that maybe the government might, as ugly as it is, see fit to add this significant part of its history to its guide for future newcomers to Canada so at least there is some awareness among them of the suffering imposed by this system. Like it or not and as ugly as it is, it is part of our history and something every newcomer to this country needs to be made aware of.
I'll echo the words of a good friend of mine from back home that I was talking to regarding this story who said I have increasing respect for indigenous groups and increasing realization about the bs we were fed about them in movies growing up.
Not just newcomers. They should also make born-Canadians take the citizenship test in high school. Part of social studies.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Ryerson University in Toronto is now facing calls to change the name of the school. That could be one of the higher profile name changes if it comes to pass.
Ryerson University in Toronto is now facing calls to change the name of the school. That could be one of the higher profile name changes if it comes to pass.
Egerton Ryerson was not only an architect of the Residential School System but also opposed education of women beyond elementary school. I get that it was different times, but when your main claim to fame is being on the wrong side of debates about human rights, why are we naming schools after these people? It would be like naming schools after someone currently opposed to gay rights.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
I don’t know if someone who is opposed to gay rights in 2021 is a fair comparison for one who opposed sexual equality in 1850.
Also, wasn’t Ryerson long dead before any residential school was actually commissioned? And from by (very brief, probably whitewashed and Eurocentric) memory of that name, I don’t think Ryerson was some evil Indian-hating murderer? Misguided as ####, but the vilification of him specifically seems misplaced.
__________________
No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
I don’t know if someone who is opposed to gay rights in 2021 is a fair comparison for one who opposed sexual equality in 1850.
Also, wasn’t Ryerson long dead before any residential school was actually commissioned? And from by (very brief, probably whitewashed and Eurocentric) memory of that name, I don’t think Ryerson was some evil Indian-hating murderer? Misguided as ####, but the vilification of him specifically seems misplaced.
Have a read through Ryerson’s own words and decide. He quite literally wrote the plan for residential schools. I don’t think I believe in the moral lens of the day excluding certain acts when those acts cause generational harm.
Quote:
the North American Indian cannot be civilized or preserved in a state of civilization (including habits of industry and sobriety) except in connect with, if not by the influence of, not only religious instruction and sentiment but of religious feelings. Even in ordinary civilized life, the mass of the labouring classes are controlled by their feelings and almost the only rule of action, in proportion to the absence or partial character of their intellectual development. The theory of a certain kind of education philosophy is falsified in respect to the Indian: with him nothing can be done to improve or elevate his character and condition without the aid of religious feeling. This influence must be superadded to all others to make the Indian a sober and industrious man. Even a knowledge of the doctrines and moral precepts of orthodox [c]hristianity, with all the appliances of prudential example and moral instruction, is inadequate to produce in the heart and life of the Indian, the spirit and habits of an industrial civilization, without the additional energy and impulsive activity of religious feeling.”
I don’t know if someone who is opposed to gay rights in 2021 is a fair comparison for one who opposed sexual equality in 1850.
Also, wasn’t Ryerson long dead before any residential school was actually commissioned? And from by (very brief, probably whitewashed and Eurocentric) memory of that name, I don’t think Ryerson was some evil Indian-hating murderer? Misguided as ####, but the vilification of him specifically seems misplaced.
In reality it doesnt matter, if changing the name of a school from some long dead white guy that 99% of Canadians have no clue about what so ever is a way of making amends, even if the dead white wasnt actually that bad but is just perceived as bad than change the name already, it shows humility and a desire to make amends, how many times have all of us had to apologise/make up for something we really weren't that guilty in a marriage but it was the right thing a good partner does to make the relationship work?
Christ we sell off the names of our stadiums to cell phone companies and those stadiums mean far more to far more Canadians than random schools, this is the easiest quickest way for white Canada to look like it gives a dam, it should be a no brainer.
The Following User Says Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
I don’t know if someone who is opposed to gay rights in 2021 is a fair comparison for one who opposed sexual equality in 1850.
Also, wasn’t Ryerson long dead before any residential school was actually commissioned? And from by (very brief, probably whitewashed and Eurocentric) memory of that name, I don’t think Ryerson was some evil Indian-hating murderer? Misguided as ####, but the vilification of him specifically seems misplaced.
I don't think it's too far off. Maybe not 2021, but 1990. Around then we were still debating a lot of the basic human rights for gay people: marriage, adoption, even legality in some places.
Women weren't allowed to attend University in Canada until 1862. This was in Ryerson's heyday as the Chief Superintendent of Education. Ryerson was specifically one of the major opponents of this and no doubt delayed women being able to go to university.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
I don't think it's too far off. Maybe not 2021, but 1990. Around then we were still debating a lot of the basic human rights for gay people: marriage, adoption, even legality in some places.
Our premiere was gung-ho against same sex marriage in 2004...and he had much of the support of the province.
It was only when his legal team told him that he wouldn't win the court challenges against the 2005 Civil Marriage Act that he finally conceded that gay marriage would be allowed to happen in Alberta (of which he was still against).
(Not really refuting your post at all, just sort of always crazy to me how even recent history had such vile positions here not to mention our eugenics board that existed until 1972 which sterilized a lot of Indigenous women without their consent or even knowledge).
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 06-08-2021 at 02:29 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Oling_Roachinen For This Useful Post:
There are quite a few reasons they might not start digging yet. Different cultures handle human remains differently. It's really hard to say what will happen without knowing the tribe's cultural responsibility to the deceased.
Wow, quite the no apology statement but no surprise. I hate to distract from the real topic but the catholic church has to be one of the most evil and disgusting organization in history.
It is by far, the #1 most corrupt and evil organization in the entire history of humanity. Nothing comes close.
Brutal tweet by the pope (probably his assistant tbh). Yeah, I'm sure he's just quivering in his pope hat looking up to the Lord for guidance . Can't even say sorry, just like the church's lack of taking responsibility for despicable acts over the centuries.
It is by far, the #1 most corrupt and evil organization in the entire history of humanity. Nothing comes close.
Brutal tweet by the pope (probably his assistant tbh). Yeah, I'm sure he's just quivering in his pope hat looking up to the Lord for guidance . Can't even say sorry, just like the church's lack of taking responsibility for despicable acts over the centuries.
Your taking the church over the Stalin, Pinochet or the Nazi regimes?
The Following User Says Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
Your taking the church over the Stalin, Pinochet or the Nazi regimes?
Not even close, even if you combined all of their victims, and who do you think it was that started the anti semitism that culminated in Hitler and the holocaust? it isnt random coincidence that the route for nazis out of europe and into south america was run by the Catholic Church in France, Spain and into the Catholic dominated countries of Paraguay and Argentina.
The sad reality is the Church was fine with the killing of the 'Christ Killers' (Jews to you and me) throughout its history
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
Not even close, even if you combined all of their victims, and who do you think it was that started the anti semitism that culminated in Hitler and the holocaust? it isnt random coincidence that the route for nazis out of europe and into south america was run by the Catholic Church in France, Spain and into the Catholic dominated countries of Paraguay and Argentina.
The sad reality is the Church was fine with the killing of the 'Christ Killers' (Jews to you and me) throughout its history
I'm sorry did you just excuse Hitler? That he was just a culmination of Catholic church policy? Yikes. Poor Hitler just minding his business when the big bad church forced him launch a world war and the Holocaust.
The fact that there were many church players who gleefully assisted in Nazi atrocities is different that what you are claiming here.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CroFlames For This Useful Post:
Not even close, even if you combined all of their victims
"Who's more evil" isn't really a math problem where you tally up the bodies. The intent of the people perpetrating it matters. But even if it were, I don't actually know that this is true... it actually might be close.
Quote:
and who do you think it was that started the anti semitism that culminated in Hitler and the holocaust? it isnt random coincidence that the route for nazis out of europe and into south america was run by the Catholic Church in France, Spain and into the Catholic dominated countries of Paraguay and Argentina.
The sad reality is the Church was fine with the killing of the 'Christ Killers' (Jews to you and me) throughout its history
This is sort of right, but also simplistic. The whole "Hitler's Pope" thing has some fair points, but much of that book's content has been pretty effectively rebutted since it was published. There's clearly a link between the Catholic Church and antisemitism throughout the centuries, though. That's one of many things they have to answer for and won't.
If you do want a fairly exhaustive (though as he puts it, "summary") list of things the Church has to answer for though, Hitchens does a pretty good job of it right at the beginning of this.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
. Can't even say sorry, just like the church's lack of taking responsibility for despicable acts over the centuries.
