Brad Treliving needs to go

[keenan87]

Such garbage. Nice to know the Flames continue to appreciate mediocrity by keeping this horrible GM around.

A few certainties in life. The Flames never having the courage to make big bold moves to try and get to the next level is one of those certainties.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Such garbage. Nice to know the Flames continue to appreciate mediocrity by keeping this horrible GM around.

A few certainties in life. The Flames never having the courage to make big bold moves to try and get to the next level is one of those certainties.

What moves would you consider “big bold” ones? Moving star players? Firing coaches and hiring big name ones? Firing a GM? They’ve done all of those things.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What moves would you consider “big bold” ones? Moving star players? Firing coaches and hiring big name ones? Firing a GM? They’ve done all of those things.

Moving star players? Waited way too long on Iginla to start the last rebuild. Basically got peanuts for him. Same deal with Bouwmeester. For this current edition, they decided to keep the same crappy core after continuous no shows in the playoffs. Now, you have players with all time low values.

Coaches - sure, they finally got a legitimate coach after dumpster diving for years. Even the coach they got is buddies with ownership. This wasn't a Boudreau or Gallant type of big hiring.

GM - has gotten zero results over the past 7 years. They keep him around because apparently he is the hardest working GM in the league. What the hell does that even mean.

Pro scouting sucks. Goalie coach sucks. Prospect pool sucks.

And all this is evident in a boring product as people have stopped really caring and enjoying games. Right before the pandemic and over the past 2sh years, you can see season ticket holders practically giving away tickets because no one wants them.

I remember back in 2006-2010, I would refresh this forum hoping someone would be selling tickets in my price range and I could be the first to buy them.

Maybe I am alone, but the Flames over the past 5-10 years have slowly sucked the excitement out of me.

[flambers]

From a trades perspective he has not made a trade of significance since 2017-2018

With the Lindholm deal, since then its been nothing other than messing around adding depth like players.

Sure there have been UFA signings.....

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

As the days go by, I think its safe to assume Tre will be here next year

Yea, he's not going anywhere yet. My guess is they're gonna give him at least one full season with Sutter as coach to try and fix this mess. I'm doubtful that much can be done right now to truly turn things around, other than trading away a core piece or two. But we'll see what happens. Changes will be made for sure, but will it be enough to get them back to the dance?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Moving star players? Waited way too long on Iginla to start the last rebuild. Basically got peanuts for him. Same deal with Bouwmeester. For this current edition, they decided to keep the same crappy core after continuous no shows in the playoffs. Now, you have players with all time low values.

Coaches - sure, they finally got a legitimate coach after dumpster diving for years. Even the coach they got is buddies with ownership. This wasn't a Boudreau or Gallant type of big hiring.

GM - has gotten zero results over the past 7 years. They keep him around because apparently he is the hardest working GM in the league. What the hell does that even mean.

Pro scouting sucks. Goalie coach sucks.

And all this is evident in a boring product as people have stopped really caring and enjoying games. Right before the pandemic and over the past 2sh years, you can see season ticket holders practically giving away tickets because no one wants them.

I remember back in 2006-2010, I would refresh this forum hoping someone would be selling tickets in my price range and I could be the first to buy them.

Maybe I am alone, but the Flames over the past 5-10 years have slowly sucked the excitement out of me.

Moving star players like Hamilton. Remember that trade? Treliving’s also been willing to move Brodie and Monahan. He’s also been willing to trade high draft picks. Pretty bold if you ask me.

Yes, they made a move to hire a good coach. You can question how long they took, but you can’t deny they made the move, which you said they refused to do.

And they fired a GM. In fact, they’ve had 4 GMs in 11 years. Which is a lot. You can argue they hired the wrong guy and that the present one should be fired as well, but that’s a different argument.

Saying pro scouting and goalie coaching suck is a completely new argument as well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

From a trades perspective he has not made a trade of significance since 2017-2018

With the Lindholm deal, since then its been nothing other than messing around adding depth like players.

Sure there have been UFA signings.....

How many trades should Treliving have made? Who should he have moved? I count the Neal trade as pretty significant. Trading a $6M player to a hated rival? It certainly generated a lot of interest here.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How many trades should Treliving have made? Who should he have moved? I count the Neal trade as pretty significant. Trading a $6M player to a hated rival? It certainly generated a lot of interest here.

Neal was a depth player on a horrible contract, that for sure is not an impact deal. Its one bad contract for another bad contract.

He has not made a trade to impact the core since Lindholm

[neo45]

Originally Posted by flambers

Neal was a depth player on a horrible contract, that for sure is not an impact deal. Its one bad contract for another bad contract.

He has not made a trade to impact the core since Lindholm

Role on the team shouldn’t determine trade significance

The Neal/Lucic trade was massive. Huge % of the cap involved and term, but it should never be used to justify Treliving keeping his job. The only reason the trade is a marginal success is because he himself set the bar on the floor with the worst contract signing in franchise history

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

Neal was a depth player on a horrible contract, that for sure is not an impact deal. Its one bad contract for another bad contract.

He has not made a trade to impact the core since Lindholm

You have gone from “significance” to “impact”. I would argue that the Neal trade was significant. And I’d even argue it was impactful just by getting Neal off the books in exchange for a useful player.

Again, which big trade should he have made? Tkachuk? Gaudreau? Monahan?

If the argument is that Treliving isn’t willing to make a big trade, you also have to count his attempts which didn’t pan out for one reason or another. He was willing to trade Brodie, for example. He was willing to trade Monahan.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You have gone from “significance” to “impact”. I would argue that the Neal trade was significant. And I’d even argue it was impactful just by getting Neal off the books in exchange for a useful player.

Again, which big trade should he have made? Tkachuk? Gaudreau? Monahan?

If the argument is that Treliving isn’t willing to make a big trade, you also have to count his attempts which didn’t pan out for one reason or another. He was willing to trade Brodie, for example. He was willing to trade Monahan.

Just used the wrong term, its a typo

Significant trade is to improve the top 2 lines

Add a really good winger etc.

As for Lucic, that for sure is not an significant trade

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

Just used the wrong term, its a typo

Significant trade is to improve the top 2 lines

Add a really good winger etc.

As for Lucic, that for sure is not an significant trade

I don’t think you know what a typo is. And you’ve now provided a definition of significant which is new. Fine. I am using a different one.

But again, the argument was that the Flames are not willing to make “big bold moves”. And from that, is the argument that Treliving is not willing to make a big trade. Which is just wrong. Because he has made big trades and has been willing to make others which didn’t pan out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I don't think it's hyperbole when saying, this off season is probably the most important in Flames history since the Save Our Flames campaign. This team is at a major fork in the road and has the ability to make some interesting moves that could improve the team. Never thought an expansion draft could possibly change the fortunes of the team in such a big way, should a major domino fall. Hope they choose the right fork.

[1qqaaz]

Here is an interesting Flames Nation article about the slow dispersion and elimination of the assets (players) from the 1989 cup winning team.

With the departure of Neilsen in 2020 (Klimchuk-Iginla-Nieuwendyk-Nilsson), all assets from the 1989 team are now dead.

Poirier's departure in 2018 eliminated the line stemming from Gary Suter's draft pick. Byron being claimed in 2015 finished off Theoren Fleury's draft pick.

Feaster and Treliving sure turned those assets into nothing. Mostly Feaster if I'm being honest.
Although the Flames probably got like 6000 points from Nilsson's, Suter's and Fleuren's draft picks. So maybe I can't complain. Not bad for 4th (Nilsson), 8th (Fleury) and 9th (Suter) round picks.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Let's be real, Nordstrom is an AHL talent. at least Tobias Reider can score shorthanded goals and use his immense speed to generate zone entries.

As for hits... hits are meaningless.

I think that's harsh.

Nordstrom is a very good in his own zone defense only forward. Very good. Good at killing penalties, and good at goalie pulled chaos.

But he can't handle the puck at all.

I honestly didn't see a whole lot Reider could do very well.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Here is an interesting Flames Nation article about the slow dispersion and elimination of the assets (players) from the 1989 cup winning team.

With the departure of Neilsen in 2020 (Klimchuk-Iginla-Nieuwendyk-Nilsson), all assets from the 1989 team are now dead.

Poirier's departure in 2018 eliminated the line stemming from Gary Suter's draft pick. Byron being claimed in 2015 finished off Theoren Fleury's draft pick.

Feaster and Treliving sure turned those assets into nothing. Mostly Feaster if I'm being honest.
Although the Flames probably got like 6000 points from Nilsson's, Suter's and Fleuren's draft picks. So maybe I can't complain. Not bad for 4th (Nilsson), 8th (Fleury) and 9th (Suter) round picks.

Yeah not sure how much of that you can hang on BT.
But part of the issue is that the club got very little out of the core that included Kipper, Iginla, Regehr, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Langkow, etc.

That's not on Tree but it is a big factor in the overall lack of assets.

[Iggy Snipe]

Treliving has done a lot good as well, I don't think any GM doesn't make mistakes. In the sport industry, you always pay someone for "last years performance", which is why there is always great debate on what to do, on a player by player basis. Tre hasn't overpaid for the top assets that Calgary does have, which is good.

By memory I believe these were the deals or close to:

Johnny 6.75x6
Gio 6.75x 6
Mony 6.25 x 7
Chucky 7x3
Lindy 5.5x5
Hannifin 5.25x5

A lot of people said that Johnny would be in the 7-9 M range, Mony 7-8 mill, Gio 7+, Chuky 8+. Those deals were all signed for less money per season than anyone could have dreamed of at the time of the deals. No argument there.

Lindy and Hannifin contracts are both fantastic, and are great assets for the Hamilton trade, however time will tell who won that trade.

I even think the Markstrom deal was solid. A lot of top goalies are 6-8 Million, so we fall into the low end of money for top end goaltending.

The problem with Treliving,and the Flames entire organization, is their failure to NOT blow cap $$ on "depth free agents" who are crap players.

My point is, all the best teams in the NHL have a fantastic top 6. Spend on your top 6 Forwards, and your top 4 D. After that, inject YOUTH. This youth brings energy, speed, and competition to the line up.

Signing depth players for 1-3 mill per season, blows valuable cap space, and doesn't create enough competition, as these players are being paid too much to not be in the lineup. It prevents youth from being put in.

A person who I value very much in the hockey world said to me "When you go head to head, the team with best top 6 will almost always win". This applies to a massive sample size in the Regular season, and then in a series in the playoffs.

Now ask your self, where does Calgarys top 6 rank vs other teams in the NHL?

Bottom 10 in the entire NHL guaranteed. Now look at where they finished in the standings. It goes hand in hand.

I wish Calgary spent their $$ only on the best 10 players (6 F and 4 D, and 1 goalie), then inject youth.

I like Tre, but if he can't change his ways, and start modelling after teams who actually have sustained success, then I think Calgary needs a change.

I still believe Brodie should have been traded for picks/prospect, and I wasn't sure why we let him walk instead of trading him. It is as simple as this - Brodie was one of our best players, and he left for nothing, and that is just unacceptable. Its hard to get over it when you watch him play 22-26 minutes a night for the top team in the Scotia North division. He was a stud, and Calgary just let him go.

I think both sides needed a change, but you don't let your top end guys go for nothing.

That would be like letting Johnny walk for nothing at the end of this season, and then say "but we signed this player instead".

Cash in on assets via picks/prospects if you can't resign a player. These discussions should have happened way ahead of time.

Treliving knew that Brodie wasn't going to sign, and chose to not trade him, and chase a cup run that was never going to happen with the teams roster/goaltending.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Moving star players? Waited way too long on Iginla to start the last rebuild. Basically got peanuts for him. Same deal with Bouwmeester. For this current edition, they decided to keep the same crappy core after continuous no shows in the playoffs. Now, you have players with all time low values.

Coaches - sure, they finally got a legitimate coach after dumpster diving for years. Even the coach they got is buddies with ownership. This wasn't a Boudreau or Gallant type of big hiring.

GM - has gotten zero results over the past 7 years. They keep him around because apparently he is the hardest working GM in the league. What the hell does that even mean.

Pro scouting sucks. Goalie coach sucks. Prospect pool sucks.

And all this is evident in a boring product as people have stopped really caring and enjoying games. Right before the pandemic and over the past 2sh years, you can see season ticket holders practically giving away tickets because no one wants them.

I remember back in 2006-2010, I would refresh this forum hoping someone would be selling tickets in my price range and I could be the first to buy them.

Maybe I am alone, but the Flames over the past 5-10 years have slowly sucked the excitement out of me.

It's back to the Iginla days for more. The writing is on the wall for the team and we're trying to suck every last drop out of a core that clearly can't get it done. Until the rebuild starts or some major moves happen I really will not be invested. I barely watched or cared this year after the first 15 or 20 games.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You have gone from “significance” to “impact”. I would argue that the Neal trade was significant. And I’d even argue it was impactful just by getting Neal off the books in exchange for a useful player.

Again, which big trade should he have made? Tkachuk? Gaudreau? Monahan?

If the argument is that Treliving isn’t willing to make a big trade, you also have to count his attempts which didn’t pan out for one reason or another. He was willing to trade Brodie, for example. He was willing to trade Monahan.

So in your mind an 'attempted' trade that does not happen makes him a good GM.
Cant stop laughing....hey boss I tried to make our company money but it did not work out....sorry about that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Reading this thread, I see some remarks about waiting too long on Iggy.

Iginla was 35 going on 36 when he was traded, and in his next 3 full seasons in Boston and Denver, led the team in goals twice. The trade return was bad, but the timing was not horrible. This team’s core is considerable younger.

This team’s top 6 someone just said is ‘bottom 10 in the league, guaranteed’. Seems hyperbolic.

A quick look at top scoring forwards in the past 3 years sees the Flames with players placed 16th, 28, 31 and 47. These guys are 27, 23, 26 and 26.

So that’s where we are. Waiting too long on guys who are 23-27, in/ entering their prime and having delivered above average production