[PST] Quarter Finals: Colorado Avalanche vs. Golden Knights--Las Vegas wins the series 4-2

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jacks

People have this ridiculous idea that Vegas was handed a playoff team when in reality it was idiot GM's who gave them top 6 players and high draft picks to not select botton 6 players, it was bizarre. Florida gave them 2/3 of a top line for nothing, just ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with the expansion rules.

Even that team on paper should not have been as competitive as they are. Fla was dumb, but even that 2/3 top line shouldn’t have been top line quality. It isn’t a top line any more - it’s their second line. Perron seemed like a declining player. Haula went from a 10-15 goal guy to 29 for some reason. Their D didn’t look great. They just gelled quickly, played a good style for their players, got Fleury, and I think the Vegas flu caught a lot of their opponents.

[transplant99]

Avs in 5.

[Strange Brew]

What a powerhouse series this is. This and the Canes/Lightning series should be fantastic.

I will go with the Avs but won't be surprised at all if Vegas takes it.

[ResAlien]

For 17 years we were in the same division as the Avs and we hate the brand spanking new baby Knights more? FOH. Knights in 5 and the Avs can go cry on Altitude with Vic Lombardi.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

For 17 years we were in the same division as the Avs and we hate the brand spanking new baby Knights more? FOH. Knights in 5 and the Avs can go cry on Altitude with Vic Lombardi.

My wife likes Vegas as her second team, because she likes the city. As good a reason as any I guess, which means I should also like Vegas. Also Nashville, the Rangers, Boston, AZ, LA and Chicago.

And I can continue to hate Edmonton, Winnipeg and Toronto. But I will be pretty conflicted on Ottawa, Vancouver and Montreal.

[memphusk]

Maybe their success is tied to how ####ty our division has been?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Jacks

People have this ridiculous idea that Vegas was handed a playoff team when in reality it was idiot GM's who gave them top 6 players and high draft picks to not select botton 6 players, it was bizarre. Florida gave them 2/3 of a top line for nothing, just ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with the expansion rules.

Aeneas and I are debating this - for sure, LV made some shrewd trades and picks and other GMs made big mistakes, but I would argue they had some significant advantages - they had no expansion partner to compete with for picks and trades (ex. Minny and Columbus entered at the same time). They were the first expansion team to enter when the other teams had to manage a salary cap (which could explain "bad" trades some GMs made). LV is an attractive destination for free agents.

The rules will be the same for Seattle (BTW, Vegas is exempt from getting picked by Seattle. Vegas wins again).

Of course people are jealous - they are a contender right out of the box, while long-standing franchises have struggled for decades. It is fair to wonder if the expansion rules are too generous (Seattle has #3 seed in draft lottery). Sure, they pay a large fee for entry ($500 M)- but Forbes valued the Knights at $570 M in December.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...cess-1.4668055

The NHL allowed its teams to protect only seven forwards, three defencemen and one goalie, or eight skaters and one goalie. By way of comparison, when the NHL last expanded in 2000, teams were allowed to protect a whopping nine forwards, five defencemen and a goalie, or seven forwards, three defencemen and two goalies.

The league also required teams to expose players with significant NHL experience who were under contract through next season, closing loopholes and helping Vegas even more. Third-line forwards and top-four defencemen were available from almost every team.

And the expansion draft terms allowed McPhee to get creative in trades with teams hoping to keep players who couldn't fit under the protection umbrella. For instance, the Knights ended up with Reilly Smith in a trade because Florida wanted them to draft Jonathan Marchessault — and the two ex-Panthers became two of the Knights' top four scorers.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by troutman

It is fair to wonder if the expansion rules are too generous (Seattle has #3 seed in draft lottery). Sure, they pay a large fee for entry ($500 M)- but Forbes valued the Knights at $570 M in December.

Seattle is paying $650 M in expansion fees. It could be said that they have paid outright for the "advantages" that they will benefit from.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Seattle is paying $650 M in expansion fees. It could be said that they have paid outright for the "advantages" that they will benefit from.

The advantage is entry to the exclusive club. Franchise value will surpass the expansion fee before long.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/spo...eport.2019.pdf

From 2000 to 2018, the average franchise value increased from $148 M to $630 M.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by troutman

The advantage is entry to the exclusive club. Franchise value will surpass the expansion fee before long.

I agree that the value will rise but I think that having the #3 seed is an advantage that they paid $150 M to have. I don't see them as having any sort of unfair competitive advantage.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

For 17 years we were in the same division as the Avs and we hate the brand spanking new baby Knights more? FOH. Knights in 5 and the Avs can go cry on Altitude with Vic Lombardi.

Well back in the day when the Flames never made the playoffs many of us had an adoptive team to cheer for in the playoffs.

I liked Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy so naturally I was an Avs fan.

Some of the best hockey I’ve ever watched is Avs series’ vs Detroit and/or Dallas.

Those 3 teams dominated the Western conference throughout the late 90’s and early 00’s and it was epic battles between them.

The series we recently had against them made me like them less but in general it’s still a place where Iggy, Tanguay and Fluery played - some of my favourite Flames players.

Plus I hate Vegas with a passion, whether it’s right or wrong is debatable but I hate them nonetheless.

[ResAlien]

That’s fine everyone has their reasons. I can remember the Avs making the Flames bite the curb and stomping on the back of their heads very recently, can’t say the same about the Knights.

[bdubbs]

Avs in 5

[Brick]

Ryan Reaves should have gotten a major for ramming Suter's head into the goalpost last night. Player safety should be reviewing that one.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

$500M should get you a Competitive team. Also they weren't handed it they made some shrewd picks and deals that got them to that next level.

Better get used to it because I have a feeling Seattle is going to be pretty good in a hurry, maybe not right out of the gate but soon enough.

This is the other thing, remember what markets we're talking about. They're not going to sit on their hands for a decade like prior expansion era teams and they've paid for the privilege to not have to.

Originally Posted by Jacks

People have this ridiculous idea that Vegas was handed a playoff team when in reality it was idiot GM's who gave them top 6 players and high draft picks to not select botton 6 players, it was bizarre. Florida gave them 2/3 of a top line for nothing, just ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with the expansion rules.

Well, not entirely, there were shrewd moves made, but again the rules were altered to allow these advantages.

Good coaching and efficient management made a big difference as well because they saw those opportunities and exploited the hell out of them.

But if Seattle were to go out and hire Kevin Lowe and Dallas Eakins they could be just as good as the Oilers were a few years ago.

Which is to say....pretty damned bad. Awful actually. Entirely No Good.

So I think it doesnt give Vegas enough credit. They got some breaks and we're dealt a really good hand and betted big on it.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

For 17 years we were in the same division as the Avs and we hate the brand spanking new baby Knights more? FOH. Knights in 5 and the Avs can go cry on Altitude with Vic Lombardi.

Originally Posted by troutman

Aeneas and I are debating this - for sure, LV made some shrewd trades and picks and other GMs made big mistakes, but I would argue they had some significant advantages - they had no expansion partner to compete with for picks and trades (ex. Minny and Columbus entered at the same time). They were the first expansion team to enter when the other teams had to manage a salary cap (which could explain "bad" trades some GMs made). LV is an attractive destination for free agents.

The rules will be the same for Seattle (BTW, Vegas is exempt from getting picked by Seattle).

Of course people are jealous - they are a contender right out of the box, while long-standing franchises have struggled for decades. It is fair to wonder if the expansion rules are too generous (Seattle has #3 seed in draft lottery). Sure, they pay a large fee for entry ($500 M)- but Forbes valued the Knights at $570 M in December.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

That’s fine everyone has their reasons. I can remember the Avs making the Flames bite the curb and stomping on the back of their heads very recently, can’t say the same about the Knights.

You sir...look here...some of us have worked long and hard to eliminate those memories and here you go just all willy-nilly throwing them back in our faces.

I can acknowledge that the Avalanche are an excellent hockey team...and yet hate them with a passion none-the-less!

[Itse]

I'm just envious of Vegas.

F them, their fans deserve to experience years of disappointment just like the rest of us.

[activeStick]

I really dislike the Avs because of how badly they embarrassed the Flames a few years ago in the playoffs. But then I like Mackinnon because he's my answer when people talk about McDavid. I don't see Vegas beating Avs in a 7-game series... Avs in 6?

[Engine09]

I'm just happy people are typing "Avs" instead of "Aves".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Itse

I'm just envious of Vegas.

F them, their fans deserve to experience years of disappointment just like the rest of us.

Hopefully when that disappointment comes, as it inevitably will due to the cyclical nature of sports, it will be crushing and long-lasting.

[Textcritic]

I don't harbour any strong feelings toward either team, but I am absolutely stoked to watch Nate MacKinnon continue his streak of playoff dominance. 15G and 34pts in his last 19 playoff games dating back to 2020.

MacKinnon is everything McDavid is not.

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