Johnny Gaudreau - re-sign or trade?

[boogerz]

Anyone thinking that Johnny is going to re-sign in the $7M ballpark is dreaming.

The going rate for a 1st line all-star that isn't good enough to carry a team is in the $8M range with a 6-9 year term - e.g. Giroux, Couture, Hall, Voracek, Kuznetsov.

CP likes to crap on Johnny all the time, but in reality, he is two seasons removed from finishing 4th in hart voting and he has finished top6 in AS LW voting in three of the past five years.

Is he worth $8.5M for the next seven years?

Absolutely. Just because the Flames don't have a another player like him (or better), doesn't mean that he isn't a necessary component of the Flames roster. Gaudreau managed to fool us all into thinking that Monahan was a first line center. He's also helped to elevate Lindholm to another level as well.

Even with a bunch of first round picks, it's hard as hell to find and develop a player that ends up as good as Johnny. Someone will sign him for a significant amount...hopefully it's the Flames.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No i have not seen anywhere that suggests the whole problem was with Gaufdreau.

I have seen, and entirely agree, he was a big PART of the problems this team experienced and i dont think that is even debatable.

So now its down, almost completely, to IF he is willing to extend and at what cost. If those two things are reasonable, then i doubt you find a single person that wishes him gone.

There are a multitude of things that have to be addressed with this club, he is but one.

You haven't seen the countless remarks about his off ice issues regarding diet and drugs and partying and the on ice issues with him being a liability, being small, soft, weak, how the league has figured him out and etc? None of that has rung a bell?

Anyways, I didn't even say that people solely blame Gaudreau for all the team's problems. I said people need to stop blaming the star for a mostly team game. I always say star players in Canada get too much of the blame when losses occur and it should be the other way around. The team needs more star players to help out the existing stars. When the Iggy's and the Gaudreau's and soon to be the Tkachuk's take on so much of the post counts in this place, it's counter productive to where we want to get to. We need attract more stars and dress more elite players to become an elite team. But if everyone has Canada on their NTC/NMC, then we're stuck with only the draft and pray method or we get to sign some UFAs by overpaying them and slotting them way higher than they should be which just exacerbates the problem.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

You haven't seen the countless remarks about his off ice issues regarding diet and drugs and partying and the on ice issues with him being a liability, being small, soft, weak, how the league has figured him out and etc? None of that has rung a bell?

Anyways, I didn't even say that people solely blame Gaudreau for all the team's problems. I said people need to stop blaming the star for a mostly team game. I always say star players in Canada get too much of the blame when losses occur and it should be the other way around. The team needs more star players to help out the existing stars. When the Iggy's and the Gaudreau's and soon to be the Tkachuk's take on so much of the post counts in this place, it's counter productive to where we want to get to. We need attract more stars and dress more elite players to become an elite team. But if everyone has Canada on their NTC/NMC, then we're stuck with only the draft and pray method or we get to sign some UFAs by overpaying them and slotting them way higher than they should be which just exacerbates the problem.

The problem with Johnny, until recently, has been poor even strength production. When you are a player who's sole contributions are producing offensively - and you aren't- that's a problem.

So people have raised valid concerns including some of what you post above. I don't see the problem with that.

But I'm reminded that just the other day you suggested that if someone felt this way they should stop watching hockey.

[kukkudo]

8.5M for Johnny? No thanks

[Flamesforever99]

Re-sign Johnny and ship out Monny

[Flamesforever99]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

8.5M for Johnny? No thanks

Is that too much? How much would you offer him to come back and play for this mediocre franchise? Johnny's our best player and given how cheap our owners are he's the closest thing to a superstar we'll get in Calgary.

8X $9 Mill and call it a day rather give him that cap hit than have Brad waste it on his annual free agent duds.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flamesforever99

Is that too much? How much would you offer him to come back and play for this mediocre franchise? Johnny's our best player and given how cheap our owners are he's the closest thing to a superstar we'll get in Calgary.

8X $9 Mill and call it a day rather give him that cap hit than have Brad waste it on his annual free agent duds.

Ummmmm....huh?

Strange observation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ummmmm....huh?

Strange observation.

This dude said they were “too cheap to hire a real coach” this year.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The problem with Johnny, until recently, has been poor even strength production. When you are a player who's sole contributions are producing offensively - and you aren't- that's a problem.

So people have raised valid concerns including some of what you post above. I don't see the problem with that.

But I'm reminded that just the other day you suggested that if someone felt this way they should stop watching hockey.

I see that you’re still hanging onto the joke I made in response to the poster’s tongue in cheek reply. Regardless, I won’t lie to you, I am still baffled that anyone can watch Johnny Gaudreau play and think he just woke up one day and lost it. It’s just a very simple explanation to a much more complex situation. It’s like looking at the basic statistics and coming up a with lazy interpretation without the rationalization. That’s when you end up with scenarios like James Neal falling off a cliff in Calgary or Sam Bennett now killing it in Florida and etc because stats don’t always tell the whole story.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I see that you’re still hanging onto the joke I made in response to the poster’s tongue in cheek reply. Regardless, I won’t lie to you, I am still baffled that anyone can watch Johnny Gaudreau play and think he just woke up one day and lost it. It’s just a very simple explanation to a much more complex situation. It’s like looking at the basic statistics and coming up a with lazy interpretation without the rationalization. That’s when you end up with scenarios like James Neal falling off a cliff in Calgary or Sam Bennett now killing it in Florida and etc because stats don’t always tell the whole story.

I don't think Johnny "lost it" and never stated he did.

[Samonadreau]

If we signed Johnny for 8.5, we would have 2 8.5M+ Left shot wingers (assuming we qualify Tkachuk) and no bonafide #1 center. Just can't see how the dollars work there.

[TheSquatch]

Trade him for Kyle Connor!

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think Johnny "lost it" and never stated he did.

Where did I say you specifically? We've been talking about people's remarks, so my post was directed at the ones who said he had lost it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

If we signed Johnny for 8.5, we would have 2 8.5M+ Left shot wingers (assuming we qualify Tkachuk) and no bonafide #1 center. Just can't see how the dollars work there.

In my opinion one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk will be moved this offseason. Johnny cannot be lost for nothing so a decision needs to be made you either sign him or move him. I was a person who assumed Johnny wanted to head back East but with his desire to stay I think it makes sense to see if that works.

Tkachuk did play RW this season so it could work having both making big money but I think it makes some sense to pick one and trade the other.

[Roof-Daddy]

Just because Johnny says to the media that he wants to stay in Calgary, doesn't mean it's true.

Maybe it is, but I sure wouldn't take it as gospel. It's his way to make sure he doesn't look like the bad guy if a deal never gets signed.

Hopefully he forgoes his shot at free agency because he gets a good offer from Tre and accepts it this off season. If that doesn't happen though, they sure as heck better trade him. I'm still pissed that Brodie ended up strolling out the door for nothing, this will be on a whole other level. Not acceptable.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Just because Johnny says to the media that he wants to stay in Calgary, doesn't mean it's true.

Maybe it is, but I sure wouldn't take it as gospel. It's his way to make sure he doesn't look like the bad guy if a deal never gets signed.

Hopefully he forgoes his shot at free agency because he gets a good offer from Tre and accepts it this off season. If that doesn't happen though, they sure as heck better trade him. I'm still pissed that Brodie ended up strolling out the door for nothing, this will be on a whole other level. Not acceptable.

I have no doubt JG wishes to stay, but that can mean many things.

I want to stay for 9 million a year is a lot different from I want to stay for 7.5 a year.

I want to stay for 7 years is a lot different than I want to stay for 5 years.

Its all about what it will take.

We will know within 7 weeks.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I see that you’re still hanging onto the joke I made in response to the poster’s tongue in cheek reply. Regardless, I won’t lie to you, I am still baffled that anyone can watch Johnny Gaudreau play and think he just woke up one day and lost it. It’s just a very simple explanation to a much more complex situation. It’s like looking at the basic statistics and coming up a with lazy interpretation without the rationalization. That’s when you end up with scenarios like James Neal falling off a cliff in Calgary or Sam Bennett now killing it in Florida and etc because stats don’t always tell the whole story.

I don't think he lost it, I just think he gets shutdown by teams that gameplan for him.

His PPG are much lower against teams he plays most frequently (PAC division teams, playoffs, this year's CAD division). https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...drjo01/splits/

296p in 288gp +19 against the other 3 divs (not sure if/how this year factors in)

136p in 166gp even against the PAC.

EVG per division are 25/90gp, 28/87gp, 32/121gp, and 33/166gp (PAC)

He's also much more productive at home 101G 276P +23 vs. 69G 218P -2 on the road (260 games of each). I imagine this is true for most players, but probably not often to this degree. I've run the numbers on other key Flames, and nobody is similar in productivity by division, not even Monahan (didn't look at home vs. away).


We can argue whether it's more of an indictment of him or the team writ large, but I'm not sure it really matters. For whatever reason, it seems we can't count on him to deliver in the most important games to the same level he shows other times. IMO we would be chasing our tails by continuing to build around him as a cornerstone.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Flamesforever99

Is that too much? How much would you offer him to come back and play for this mediocre franchise? Johnny's our best player and given how cheap our owners are he's the closest thing to a superstar we'll get in Calgary.

8X $9 Mill and call it a day rather give him that cap hit than have Brad waste it on his annual free agent duds.

9M? For a one dimensional forward who’s been mediocre for a few years now? If he’s looking for anything 8 plus move him unless the Flames have a major shot at Eichel.

9M a year for a soon to be 28 year old that hasn’t really been a game breaker forward for a while is gonna backfire quick. You also said 8 years? Hahah

[oldschoolcalgary]

Well, my preference would be to sign him on a fair contract...I'd guess around 8-8.5 million...

that said, Treliving (making the assumption he stays, cause, well, its the Flames) needs to figure out where Johnny's head is at wrt to wanting to be here.

Can't have an asset like him walk away for nothing and letting it linger too long puts the Flames in a worsening leverage position imo.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Well, my preference would be to sign him on a fair contract...I'd guess around 8-8.5 million...

that said, Treliving (making the assumption he stays, cause, well, its the Flames) needs to figure out where Johnny's head is at wrt to wanting to be here.

Can't have an asset like him walk away for nothing and letting it linger too long puts the Flames in a worsening leverage position imo.

Johnny forthrightly says that he loves it here, wants to stay and would be great to spend his career here

Let’s bring in the Wizard for a second opinion

We are doomed