Brad Treliving needs to go

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

when you say ‘ the Flames need to step up and start doing a better job instead of making excuses’. Well, yeah. Treliving himself has said as much and I don’t think he has made any excuses. these sorts of criticisms that are frequently being brought up are made in a vacuum of evidence or context.

Of course, we all want the Flames to win or at least give us something to be excited about. This past season didn’t give us either. I’m more interested as to why as opposed to laying blame.

Lots of why's out there it is not all about blame.

For example,

There has been lots of clamoring for more ice time and better line-mates for Bennett. Yet the Flames still couldn't do what Florida did for Sam Bennett the moment they got him! What does that tell you?

The Flames hired several coaches with poor results, why? because they went with unproven coaches.

The Flames brought in Brouwer and Neal, both played poorly and wasted valuable cap space, why? Someone either didn't do their homework, or kept trying to put a square peg in a round hole. One got bought out the other one got traded and the Flames were on the books for both.

I would go into team needs for rw but suspect you will counter with how hard it is to acquire the players, but there is a reason we have lacked cap flexibility.

Fans here don't claim to be GM's, we just want answers. Many pay hard earned dollars to watch this team. GM's job is to find the y's. Fans going to get cranky with the same results and disappointing efforts.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Admittedly I didn’t read the lead up to your post. I just saw some points raised I wanted to respond to.

Fair points you raise here. The Flames do have their work cut out for themselves. I do believe, and agree with Treliving’s assessment, that this team underperformed. I can see a return to the playoffs with a normal season and division alignment next year. He could be criticized for not acting sooner, but I don’t think that will be the case this offseason. I could see a scenario where he make a change to the core that most of us see coming (Gaudreau or Monahan) and maybe another that people don’t see coming, or at least not being discussed as often (Hanifin, Backlund). Just a guess on my part though.

Yeah I think with the Monahan rumors of last season, another trade will be explored. I also agree with you that I could see Hanifin on the move too. Not necessarily because he was bad, it was probably his best season as a Flame. But the evidence suggests it could happen. The pinch point is obviously the expansion draft and some one has to go.

I keep going back to the “entitlement” term Darryl used. In the end, he really pushed the veterans of the team over the kids this season. Under Ward, the Dube’s and the Hanifin’s played prominent top line/pairing roles. Once Darryl arrived, the Dube’s and the Valimaki’s were benched/scratched and Hanifin was demoted from top pair to #4. So, I won’t personally be surprised if one or two moves involving these young players occurs.

Also, in the presser, I’m not sure I remember Treliving speaking much about Hanifin. He praised Andersson and Mangiapane growth, but does anyone remember hearing Hanifin’s name? If not, I wonder if that might be another hint as to what’s to come.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Also, in the presser, I’m not sure I remember Treliving speaking much about Hanifin. He praised Andersson and Mangiapane growth, but does anyone remember hearing Hanifin’s name? If not, I wonder if that might be another hint as to what’s to come.

I wouldn’t be surprised. IMO it was very odd that Andersson was praised and didn’t hear much about Hanifin.

Rasmus was horrible at times this year, Hanifin was the better player by quite a margin.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Lots of why's out there it is not all about blame.

For example,

There has been lots of clamoring for more ice time and better line-mates for Bennett. Yet the Flames still couldn't do what Florida did for Sam Bennett the moment they got him! What does that tell you?

The Flames hired several coaches with poor results, why? because they went with unproven coaches.

The Flames brought in Brouwer and Neal, both played poorly and wasted valuable cap space, why? Someone either didn't do their homework, or kept trying to put a square peg in a round hole. One got bought out the other one got traded and the Flames were on the books for both.

I would go into team needs for rw but suspect you will counter with how hard it is to acquire the players, but there is a reason we have lacked cap flexibility.

Fans here don't claim to be GM's, we just want answers. Many pay hard earned dollars to watch this team. GM's job is to find the y's. Fans going to get cranky with the same results and disappointing efforts.

These are all fair criticisms.

I think the team needs either a top 2 C, or RW. If they get the C, that allows them to put Lindholm back on the wing. Do they have the pieces to go get one of the two? I guess we will find out.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

These are all fair criticisms.

I think the team needs either a top 2 C, or RW. If they get the C, that allows them to put Lindholm back on the wing. Do they have the pieces to go get one of the two? I guess we will find out.

My thoughts as well. If we can get a solid C we can move Lindholm up/down as a C, or back on the wing. Really depends on the pieces being moved. The more solid down the middle the better! In addition to a C, wouldn't mind Sam Reinhart. Right hand shot that plays center. Seems unhappy and could thrive with a change. He is young and he does have some skill. If we can't get the C we covet, Sam could fill the role, or buy the team time for improvement.

Not popular but I wouldn't mind seeing Matt moved. To be fair, he is not the only underachiever. I know he is young, but when a player shuts down his play despite the team efforts that's a big concern. Young guys on this team need players leading by example, can he do this? Matt didn't really snap out of it until the end of the season, which is something you don't want to see from a future leader.

Declining players? Some more options to improve team style and culture.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I wouldn’t be surprised. IMO it was very odd that Andersson was praised and didn’t hear much about Hanifin.

Rasmus was horrible at times this year, Hanifin was the better player by quite a margin.

Yeah the first half for Rasmus was just straight up bad. But his second half was better. I think the change in defensive philosophy helped a lot, the forwards came back to defend as a unit better and I think that helped him because even when Hanifin went down, his game didn’t skip a beat.

Although, even with Hanifin’s major steps forward, I get the feeling Darryl is not as high on Hanifin as others are. I think his “entitlement” speech included Noah. Darryl went on record a few weeks ago saying Andersson was his #3. So with the top pairing being Gio and Tanev, we can probably assume his default #4 would be Hanifin and with Treliving being in constant communication with Darryl; perhaps that’s why Tre failed to mention Hanifin, because maybe he didn’t take the BIG step forward. Interesting to speculate though.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

My thoughts as well. If we can get a solid C we can move Lindholm up/down as a C, or back on the wing. Really depends on the pieces being moved. The more solid down the middle the better! In addition to a C, wouldn't mind Sam Reinhart. Right hand shot that plays center. Seems unhappy and could thrive with a change. He is young and he does have some skill. If we can't get the C we covet, Sam could fill the role, or buy the team time for improvement.

Not popular but I wouldn't mind seeing Matt moved. To be fair, he is not the only underachiever. I know he is young, but when a player shuts down his play despite the team efforts that's a big concern. Young guys on this team need players leading by example, can he do this? Matt didn't really snap out of it until the end of the season, which is something you don't want to see from a future leader.

Declining players? Some more options to improve team style and culture.

agreed. Rienhart is an interesting player who, by all accounts, should be available. He fits the profile Treliving has pursued before as well. Plus he is a former 2OA pick, so that should mean the Flames are one step closer to the cup in the minds of a few posters.

Interesting article by Eric D in the Athletic this morning speculating on Philadelphia-Calgary as suitable trading partners. He didn't propose a trade, but just speculated on players that could be available including Couturier, Patrick and Tkachuk.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t see it the same way. Dismissing him wouldn’t be knee jerk. The body of work and evidence are all there.

If the team hasn’t done the analysis, that’s where they are the joke

Treliving can justify everything he has done, can speak about all of the analysis that went in to each of his moves. I listed in another post about 10-15 of his moves that have not worked out for the better. He is getting a pretty long rap sheet now, both in terms of moves that didn’t work out, and seasons that didn’t work out

He seems to be able to say it all starts with him, and at some point the owners should listen to that part of the story

The team IMO should not waste another second on this guy. I still think they keep him but absolutely should not

Who would you hire? Can you point to any examples of new GMs making significant and productive changes in their first 3 months on a job?

Zito is the first one that comes to my mind, but that situation was a lot different with a ton of cap room, and an unprecedented number of decent players with nowhere to go.

Hired Sep. 2

Matheson for Hornqvist
Cliff Pu for Nutivara (a fleecing by him)

Signed Wennberg, Gudas, Verhaege, and Lomberg in the first 6 weeks (and Duclair a few months later).

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yeah the first half for Rasmus was just straight up bad. But his second half was better. I think the change in defensive philosophy helped a lot, the forwards came back to defend as a unit better and I think that helped him because even when Hanifin went down, his game didn’t skip a beat.

Although, even with Hanifin’s major steps forward, I get the feeling Darryl is not as high on Hanifin as others are. I think his “entitlement” speech included Noah. Darryl went on record a few weeks ago saying Andersson was his #3. So with the top pairing being Gio and Tanev, we can probably assume his default #4 would be Hanifin and with Treliving being in constant communication with Darryl; perhaps that’s why Tre failed to mention Hanifin, because maybe he didn’t take the BIG step forward. Interesting to speculate though.

The first half of the season I remember a lot more criticism of Gio than I do of Andersson. people were shocked that Gio looked so lost and maybe his age had caught up with him. Tanev and Hanifin were great that time. That Tanev was moved up to play with Gio was probably more of an indictment on Gio than it was with Andersson.

[Iggy Snipe]

Letting TJ Brodie walk for nothing is a fireable offence in my opinion.

The guy is a top pairing D man and we let him go for NOTHING.

He could have traded him for picks, and still signed Tanev.

Also a fireable offence: Not having Tkachuk in power skating 24/7

[Hackey]

Probably could have got a couple 2nd's for Brodie and not wasted a 3rd and 4th on Gustafsson and Forbort.

2nd
2nd
3rd
4th

Considering we've recently grabbed guys like Andersson, Dube, Fox, Ruzicka, in those rounds I think it would have been nice to have those picks as opposed to DFA.

Flames just love to chase mediocrity as opposed to actually building a contender though.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Iggy Snipe

Letting TJ Brodie walk for nothing is a fireable offence in my opinion.

The guy is a top pairing D man and we let him go for NOTHING.

He could have traded him for picks, and still signed Tanev.

Also a fireable offence: Not having Tkachuk in power skating 24/7

You don’t think the Flames, and Tkachuk himself, haven’t sought out to improve his skating......?? Wow.

Your first point is hardly any better.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

The first half of the season I remember a lot more criticism of Gio than I do of Andersson. people were shocked that Gio looked so lost and maybe his age had caught up with him. Tanev and Hanifin were great that time. That Tanev was moved up to play with Gio was probably more of an indictment on Gio than it was with Andersson.

I do remember that as well. But I think the problem for Gio was two-fold. The system the team was playing under Ward, allowed the opposition to take over the middle of the ice which forced the defensemen to give up the blue line. Gio’s 37 years old, mobility is not his strength. So without proper back pressure, his pairing was getting crushed.

He’s also needed a speedy partner to make up for the occasional mishaps and Brodie was that guy in the past. Once Tanev partnered up with Gio, his game hit another level similar to what we’ve seen from him in years past. I don’t think Gio has ever really lost it, his game is all about his instincts and hockey IQ. But he’s more effective as a half court player these days and I think Darryl’s new system has made all the difference for his game.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Iggy Snipe

Letting TJ Brodie walk for nothing is a fireable offence in my opinion.

The guy is a top pairing D man and we let him go for NOTHING.

He could have traded him for picks, and still signed Tanev.

Also a fireable offence: Not having Tkachuk in power skating 24/7

I’m not a big Treliving guy, but come on.

The Flames couldn’t afford both TJ and Chris Tanev. I happen to think they made the right choice. Would I prefer Brodie over Hanifin though? That’s the better question I think.

Also, Tkachuk is what he is in the skating department. He’s a better skater now than in his rookie season at the very least. The reason why Matthew is able to excel in the NHL despite being such a poor skater though is his power forward game. He’s extremely heavy and can buy time and space using his size and smarts. He’s able to keep up with Johnny Gaudreau and that’s probably the most important thing.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I do remember that as well. But I think the problem for Gio was two-fold. The system the team was playing under Ward, allowed the opposition to take over the middle of the ice which forced the defensemen to give up the blue line. Gio’s 37 years old, mobility is not his strength. So without proper back pressure, his pairing was getting crushed.

He’s also needed a speedy partner to make up for the occasional mishaps and Brodie was that guy in the past. Once Tanev partnered up with Gio, his game hit another level similar to what we’ve seen from him in years past. I don’t think Gio has ever really lost it, his game is all about his instincts and hockey IQ. But he’s more effective as a half court player these days and I think Darryl’s new system has made all the difference for his game.

I see your reasoning, but I disagree that Tanev was a more speedy partner than Andresson, and last year Gio/Andersson seemed to be a stronger pair than Gio/Brodie. It's also hard to justify that Gio is more effective as a half court player when he runs the power play most if the time.

It's also hard to blame a system problem for bad play when Tanev/Hanifin were so incredibly dominant under Ward at the same time Gio struggled. I just think he had a bad first half of the year and a better second half and trying to justify that by blaming his partner or the system is reaching for straws.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Probably could have got a couple 2nd's for Brodie and not wasted a 3rd and 4th on Gustafsson and Forbort.

2nd
2nd
3rd
4th

Considering we've recently grabbed guys like Andersson, Dube, Fox, Ruzicka, in those rounds I think it would have been nice to have those picks as opposed to DFA.

Flames just love to chase mediocrity as opposed to actually building a contender though.

Bare in mind when the 2020 TDL hit both Giordano and Hamonic were hurt. Two of their top 4. The Flames had every intention of making the playoffs. The year prior, they had their second best regular season ever. Like it or not, they weren’t about to throw in the towel on their season. So they shored up an area of weakness. It was a completely reasonable strategy. If you were expecting different from the Calgary Flames, you’re probably not thinking clearly. That, or you’re new.

There’s no way they were going to trade Brodie. First of all, they needed him. Trading him and moving into the playoff stretch with 3 of your top 4 gone would all but certainly ended their season. That’s just not something this organization has a history of doing. Secondly, at that point there was probably just as good a shot resigning him as there wasn’t. Again, there’s just no way were they going to trade Brodie at that point with the situation being what it was.

Lastly, the Flames didn’t let Brodie walk. He was a UFA and was in control of his own career. I’m sure the Flames kept an open dialogue with him and let him know they wanted him back, but at a price that would work for them. Brodie made his decision. This isn’t the last time the Flames are going to lose a player to free agency and they are far from alone in that respect.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Bare in mind when the 2020 TDL hit both Giordano and Hamonic were hurt. Two of their top 4. The Flames had every intention of making the playoffs. The year prior, they had their second best regular season ever. Like it or not, they weren’t about to throw in the towel on their season. So they shored up an area of weakness. It was a completely reasonable strategy. If you were expecting different from the Calgary Flames, you’re probably not thinking clearly. That, or you’re new.

.

I don't remember defensive depth ever being pointed at as the biggest area of weakness on the team last year or this off-season. It was always scoring and the lack of production from their top players.

[bluejays]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say if Brad is not let go by tomorrow, he'll be kept for the year. This time of year they have to plan for the draft, FA and the expansion draft. I feel tomorrow is the d-day.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I don't remember defensive depth ever being pointed at as the biggest area of weakness on the team last year or this off-season. It was always scoring and the lack of production from their top players.

Correct. But I do recall when gio and Hamonic went down Treliving said that changed their deadline plans.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I see your reasoning, but I disagree that Tanev was a more speedy partner than Andresson, and last year Gio/Andersson seemed to be a stronger pair than Gio/Brodie. It's also hard to justify that Gio is more effective as a half court player when he runs the power play most if the time.

It's also hard to blame a system problem for bad play when Tanev/Hanifin were so incredibly dominant under Ward at the same time Gio struggled. I just think he had a bad first half of the year and a better second half and trying to justify that by blaming his partner or the system is reaching for straws.

Isn’t the powerplay mostly half court? When I say half court, I’m stealing the basketball term that essentially means from the blue line in for hockey. So in other words, the powerplay, the penalty kill, along boards, the cycle. Less about run and gun, quick counter attacks and transitions.

In regards to Hanifin and Tanev, that was a very good pair, no doubt about that. But I also really liked Gio and Tanev together as well. I don’t know for certain who was better or what the stats suggest, but I know one thing. Gio is Darryl’s #1 guy. He said it himself, the minutes show it and the promotion of Gio coupled with the demotion of Hanifin essentially tells the story.

Darryl also said in one of the media pressers that Andersson was his #3, so under Darryl, Hanifin is probably the #4 guy. So despite what we all think, it’s Darryl’s show and he’s running it the way he wants to and I’m ultimately kind of fine with Gio at the top. I still think he has a lot of game left in him.