[News] Calgary Flames Garbage Bag Day Media Availability 10AM

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wouldn’t give much credence to anything anyone says in these press conferences. It’s all vacuous corporate platitudes, sports cliches, and scripted responses fed to players by their agents.

Agreed. I would love to be a fly on the wall in a few of the player/GM meetings as that's where the good stuff is aired.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So you think that Treliving was lying?



"I've never seen a guy play through anything like that."

Grossly exaggerating? I would think he probably was. Why not?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Because Ruz would have been worse than Monahan who was out there doing nothing but taking up space? Anything would have been better, he should have been shut down.

Monahan was not producing but he was much better at everything else than Ruzicka could have been.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Those wanting to keep the bulk of the core together and/or clamoring to an easier playoff entry next year are likely just realizing (or not realizing) that there are no scenarios where this team is good in the next 3-5 years.

The level of retool necessary to competed with Tampa or Colorado or Carolina or Las Vegas is not possible with this roster. With top end coaching you can try to scratch and claw to get through a round or two (like NYI), but there is no chance of winning a cup. This is not Washington after winning the presidents trophy or close for many years. This is not even the 8th place Kings team that loaded up on fir power with Quick, Doughty, Kopitar as the center pieces. This is not even the 04 Flames with Kipper, Regehr, Iginla. This team has neither the top end to outscore, nor the grit to grind out a team in the playoffs.

It's either 5 years of misery starting now...or 5 years of misery starting whenever we decide to take on 5 years of misery. Either way...I don't see a scenario where a team trades us a good enough set of players to make a tangible difference and there is nothing in the pipeline that could make the necessary impact in the near term time horizon. This team peaked in the regular season of 2019 and burned (misdeveloped, traded etc.) too many assets along the way to build on that.

It's painfully obvious, isn't it? It can't be this obvious to (a good amount) of fans and not obvious to owners/management. Which...gives me pause to what the real priority is at the upper levels of the organization.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The long term core Flames have far more golf time in at the country clubs than is the norm for the NHL player.

Do you think these guys are playing at public courses?


**** Trying to make a point while being funny.

Backlund at least seems to like hockey enough to play whenever Sweden asks him.

Gio has the longest off season of any elite player basically ever. Add his 7 games in 2010 that he played for Team Canada at the WC means he has 30 games after the regular season ends with 10 coming with the bubble mess last year.

Is Jack Eichler elite? Tell me about his off-season record

[DomeFoam]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Those wanting to keep the bulk of the core together and/or clamoring to an easier playoff entry next year are likely just realizing (or not realizing) that there are no scenarios where this team is good in the next 3-5 years.

The level of retool necessary to competed with Tampa or Colorado or Carolina or Las Vegas is not possible with this roster. With top end coaching you can try to scratch and claw to get through a round or two (like NYI), but there is no chance of winning a cup. This is not Washington after winning the presidents trophy or close for many years. This is not even the 8th place Kings team that loaded up on fir power with Quick, Doughty, Kopitar as the center pieces. This is not even the 04 Flames with Kipper, Regehr, Iginla. This team has neither the top end to outscore, nor the grit to grind out a team in the playoffs.

It's either 5 years of misery starting now...or 5 years of misery starting whenever we decide to take on 5 years of misery. Either way...I don't see a scenario where a team trades us a good enough set of players to make a tangible difference and there is nothing in the pipeline that could make the necessary impact in the near term time horizon. This team peaked in the regular season of 2019 and burned (misdeveloped, traded etc.) too many assets along the way to build on that.

We decided to have some truth for breakfast this morning. Everyone come grab a bowl.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So you think that Treliving was lying?

"I've never seen a guy play through anything like that."

it's just a sound bite. Nothing more. Nothing less. It was BT trying to pay a compliment to one of the only players that had a good year, including in spite of injuries .

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Those wanting to keep the bulk of the core together and/or clamoring to an easier playoff entry next year are likely just realizing (or not realizing) that there are no scenarios where this team is good in the next 3-5 years.

The level of retool necessary to competed with Tampa or Colorado or Carolina or Las Vegas is not possible with this roster. With top end coaching you can try to scratch and claw to get through a round or two (like NYI), but there is no chance of winning a cup. This is not Washington after winning the presidents trophy or close for many years. This is not even the 8th place Kings team that loaded up on fir power with Quick, Doughty, Kopitar as the center pieces. This is not even the 04 Flames with Kipper, Regehr, Iginla. This team has neither the top end to outscore, nor the grit to grind out a team in the playoffs.

It's either 5 years of misery starting now...or 5 years of misery starting whenever we decide to take on 5 years of misery. Either way...I don't see a scenario where a team trades us a good enough set of players to make a tangible difference and there is nothing in the pipeline that could make the necessary impact in the near term time horizon. This team peaked in the regular season of 2019 and burned (misdeveloped, traded etc.) too many assets along the way to build on that.

I largely agree with you, and far too often these things are put off.

From an ownership standpoint I get it. You think you're close so why give away potential playoff money and push the whole thing down the road?

I wish they'd see that if you do it right you can have 15 years of playoff experiences and potentially two or three that go deep, at least that should be the plan.

Having said all that this isn't a demolition to the studs type of operation. This isn't an aging team at all.

I'm good with brining Tkachuk, Lindholm and Gaudreau back as a top line given what I saw in the last month of the season; that is if Gaudreau agrees to a reasonable contract.

If he wants max dollars and/or term you have to move him.

I like Dube and Mangiapane up front.

I like Zary and Pelletier as depth pieces going forward.

Monahan is one I can't completely decide on.

I think you let Giordano go in the expansion draft and if they take someone else move him at the deadline.

The big key for me is not chase it with free agents. Get younger in the depth areas and take some lumps for a year or two, and maybe you avoid the five year mess you're describing.

I'd be much happier with a younger team with cap space learning to play Sutter's defense system and being plucky enough to be close to a playoff spot than a team maxed to the cap that isn't showing up often enough.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I largely agree with you, and far too often these things are put off.

From an ownership standpoint I get it. You think you're close so why give away potential playoff money and push the whole thing down the road?

I wish they'd see that if you do it right you can have 15 years of playoff experiences and potentially two or three that go deep, at least that should be the plan.

Having said all that this isn't a demolition to the studs type of operation. This isn't an aging team at all.

I'm good with brining Tkachuk, Lindholm and Gaudreau back as a top line given what I saw in the last month of the season; that is if Gaudreau agrees to a reasonable contract.

If he wants max dollars and/or term you have to move him.

I like Dube and Mangiapane up front.

I like Zary and Pelletier as depth pieces going forward.

Monahan is one I can't completely decide on.

I think you let Giordano go in the expansion draft and if they take someone else move him at the deadline.

The big key for me is not chase it with free agents. Get younger in the depth areas and take some lumps for a year or two, and maybe you avoid the five year mess you're describing.

I'd be much happier with a younger team with cap space learning to play Sutter's defense system and being plucky enough to be close to a playoff spot than a team maxed to the cap that isn't showing up often enough.

Totally agree with all of this.

I think you can make big changes to the group simply by letting a lot of the free agents walk and replacing them with younger guys (not fishing for that fourth line depth in FA), moving maybe 1-2 players (through trade, or exp. draft exposure) and roll with that.

I don't see any logic in clearing house completely. You rebuild to get the same sort of pieces we have right now, ideally with better results though its not remotely guaranteed. We have a better chance at treating this like a young learning team with some good pieces that starting over and just hoping for top picks. Chances are when you do that, you don't get them.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm good with brining Tkachuk, Lindholm and Gaudreau back as a top line given what I saw in the last month of the season; that is if Gaudreau agrees to a reasonable contract.

I think this applies to Tkachuk too.

Both Gaudreau and Tkachuk are in similar situations heading into the next season, and really depending on the contract demands of each of them I think that really determines what the team does.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I largely agree with you, and far too often these things are put off.

From an ownership standpoint I get it. You think you're close so why give away potential playoff money and push the whole thing down the road?

I wish they'd see that if you do it right you can have 15 years of playoff experiences and potentially two or three that go deep, at least that should be the plan.

Having said all that this isn't a demolition to the studs type of operation. This isn't an aging team at all.

I'm good with brining Tkachuk, Lindholm and Gaudreau back as a top line given what I saw in the last month of the season; that is if Gaudreau agrees to a reasonable contract.

If he wants max dollars and/or term you have to move him.

I like Dube and Mangiapane up front.

I like Zary and Pelletier as depth pieces going forward.

Monahan is one I can't completely decide on.

I think you let Giordano go in the expansion draft and if they take someone else move him at the deadline.

The big key for me is not chase it with free agents. Get younger in the depth areas and take some lumps for a year or two, and maybe you avoid the five year mess you're describing.

I'd be much happier with a younger team with cap space learning to play Sutter's defense system and being plucky enough to be close to a playoff spot than a team maxed to the cap that isn't showing up often enough.

My fear is that if Gio is picked up by the Kraken that the Flames use that freed up money on a guy like RNH, Palmieri, or Hall (if he doesn't sign with the Bruins).

[868904]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

My fear is that if Gio is picked up by the Kraken that the Flames use that freed up money on a guy like RNH, Palmieri, or Hall (if he doesn't sign with the Bruins).

Have no fear about that money being reallocated to a forward.

It will go to a veteran defenseman, guaranteed.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd be much happier with a younger team with cap space learning to play Sutter's defense system and being plucky enough to be close to a playoff spot than a team maxed to the cap that isn't showing up often enough.

I want this too but can you keep much cap space once you give raises to Tkachuk and Gaudreau?

I'd love to move Monahan for meaningful draft capital but fear that ship has sailed.

Regardless, I can't imagine this management team suddenly abandoning the veteran UFA approach.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I want this too but can you keep much cap space once you give raises to Tkachuk and Gaudreau?

I'd love to move Monahan for meaningful draft capital but fear that ship has sailed.

Regardless, I can't imagine this management team suddenly abandoning the veteran UFA approach.

Is either guy going to get much of a raise though?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Is either guy going to get much of a raise though?

Gaudreau, maybe. I don't think he would want to re-sign at a reasonable cap hit/term if the Flames are rebuilding.
Tkachuk, there is no doubt. Don't forget the $9 mill QO requirement.

If Gaudreau re-signs, that really just leaves Tkachuk as the major trade piece (I don't consider Monahan, Backlund and Gio as major trade pieces).

[powderjunkie]

I'm genuinely curious what BT could have said in his availability that would have satisfied some of you. It's like tuning in to a politician you've already decided you hate, and then being surprised when his remarks annoy you.


That said, [without having heard them in full context], the WAS comments is pretty dumb. WAS made it to game 7 or later in 14/15 seasons (the exception being the one year they missed po's). Their 2nd worst year is better than our 2nd best year.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This will be extremely unpopular but...

I think the best road forward is to keep as much of this group as possible.

I was one of if not the pre-eminent “blow it up” crowd earlier. In fact 2 years ago I was clamouring to blow it up. I think this team has what it takes. I really wanted to blow them up but from what I saw from Sutter onward? Yeah. We can win the Cup with this group. Yep- roast away. But I believe. Coaching change was too little too late. Fans in the building? This team can do it. Biggest major hurdle is to expect Giordano to go via Expansion Draft and that’s a massive hole to fill.

But this team? Yep, I think they have it. I know that sounds insane. You know there’s something to be said about having something to prove. Markstrom is a Stanley Cup caliber goalie. Defence admittedly needs to be addressed and more depth especially when Gio gets taken, but you got some good young forwards Johnny stepping up and I think Tkachuk returns to form with a crowd in the building. Lindholm is amazing and, yeah. I think they have it. I know this is unpopular- but one of the reasons the 2004 team did what they did was because the city believed they could and the team could feel it as well. If this city backs this group? It can work- the players are good enough.

Yeah I’m sort of in agreement. I saw a few really good things to finish out this season. The overall defensive structure is there and the goaltender I think is there. Markstrom was just adequate for the Flames in the end this season, but I think he has the potential to be a very good #1. The Flames don’t give up much, so if the structure and pace of play stays high, then this team has the foundation for success.

I also think the new top line and the new top pairing on defense can be one of the better lines/pairings in this league and I believe they along with the new system can propel this team to at the very least, a competitive first round finish. The trick though, as it has been for years now, is to take the next step, which will require considerably better forward depth.

There is no more room for error from a management standpoint, this is it. This team has a weak asset base, so resources are low and you cannot be wrong anymore. No more Neals, no more Brouwers, no more Lazars and Raymonds and etc. Find the right guys who can actually drive play and who can take pressure off of the top line consistently. Ideally, the second line should be able to push the top line for more ice time. The 3rd and 4th lines have to be good too, no more black holes on the offensive side like a Joakim Nordstrom. Everyone skater needs to be able to contribute above the average. That’s how we get out of the middle.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'm genuinely curious what BT could have said in his availability that would have satisfied some of you. It's like tuning in to a politician you've already decided you hate, and then being surprised when his remarks annoy you.


That said, [without having heard them in full context], the WAS comments is pretty dumb. WAS made it to game 7 or later in 14/15 seasons (the exception being the one year they missed po's). Their 2nd worst year is better than our 2nd best year.

"I Quit."

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Is either guy going to get much of a raise though?

Tkachuk will be guaranteed a $2 million raise year after next. Guess he might sign for less longer term but I'm not counting on it. Can't see Gaudreau signing for less than $8M, best case possible.

So about $3.5 million. Plus a raise to Mangiapane which could be that much by itself.

You do have Gio coming off the books. So maybe a wash if you're lucky.

Unless you trade a vet for picks or they get claimed by Seattle.

[LTH]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

It's painfully obvious, isn't it? It can't be this obvious to (a good amount) of fans and not obvious to owners/management. Which...gives me pause to what the real priority is at the upper levels of the organization.

I just don't understand how they are seeing things. wow...i just looked up how many times we're been in the playoffs since the '04 run and I can't believe we've been in 8/16 years. But that just goes to show how pitiful those playoffs have been. Nothing memorable....except maybe the Vancouver series where Ferland destroyed the Canucks. Other than than, nothing worth noting.
How does the upper management not see how a 10 year playoff run , as a real contender with star players is better than this abismal record that we have.

The '04 run created a generation of hardcore fans, it renewed this franshise in an incredible way. That was 17 yrs ago. There is an entire generation of young people that haven't had much to cheer for.

And then there's the money....how much more money is there to be made having a long run as a perenial playoff contender like Chicago, Pittsburgh vs a team that can barely sneak in half the time and get booted with ease.

It boggles the mind how this org continually settles for mediocracy.