[News] Calgary Flames Garbage Bag Day Media Availability 10AM

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by 868904

I agree with you that we shouldn't blame Gaudreau solely for not producing in the playoffs. He needed another guy like him to help out. Monahan, Lindholm just aren't offensive drivers on their own. They are good support pieces.

I'm not sure Tkachuk is an offensive driver on his own either. I think he got too much credit for his offense while playing with Backlund who I think is underrated.

I disagree with you about the production of the trio at the end of the season. Other than the Montreal games, the opposition wasn't really playing for much. It's easy to put up points when the other team isn't trying it's hardest.

I'm not sure where you stand on what this team needs to do, but I think the Flames should keep Gaudreau (within reason) but also need to acquire someone who is better or at least equal to him in terms of producing offense. I said it in another post, McDavid is better with Draisatl around. Mackinnion is better with Rantanen around. Crosby is better with Malkin around. I don't think Gaudreau is at the level of McDavid, Crosby, Malkin or Mackinnion, but I do think he's at the level of Draisatl and Rantanen.

Maybe Eichel is the answer.

Yes, I would agree with you that Lindholm is more of a support player in terms of the offensive side. He lacks the dynamic qualities that makes him an true elite #1 center. But his details away from the puck are absolutely elite. He’s fantastic at checking and defending. His one timer is pretty good as well, he goes to the hard areas of the game and wins all kinds of puck battles. So he’s really important piece to any line because marries the defensive to the offensive side, keeping it all connected.

I would also disagree on your point that Tkachuk isn’t a bonafide offensive driver. I think he definitely is, maybe not on the rush side of the game, but he’s so good at getting the puck out of his own zone, he helps to keep that line from being hemmed in defensively. He also cuts to the middle and has excellent vision. Down low, I don’t think there’s a better player on the team below the hash marks, so he drives the cycle game on that line which helps to keep the opposition pinned in the Dzone.

The games I understand down the final stretch didn’t mean much. But even then, individually speaking, opposition defenders still don’t want to get scored on, so they’ll still defend. It’s not like they just laid down and died, allowing that line to score. But more importantly, when the games were on the line and must win territory, these guys were by far the best line on the ice. Shift after shift they created offensive traction, setting up the line after to be in a good position. So even though the production wasn’t top end, they still looked good. I would argue Matthew was still struggling with confidence as he was hitting the post a lot and missing passes, so he wasn’t exactly firing on all cylinders.

My position is that this team could use a Jack Eichel no doubt. But I don’t want to punch major holes in the line up while giving up a ton of futures just to add an oft injured center. If it was up to me, I’d keep the current top line intact while creating another reliable scoring line. Darryl’s defensive game should hold steady, so they don’t to sell the farm for a McDavid or Matthews. Just something they can count on for secondary scoring.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Treliving:

- this was a good team that underachieved
- clearly some holes that we needed to fill/need to fill, there were some holes we failed to fill and going forward we will need to address
- consistently inconsistent, we never got on a roll
- we played a much better team game in the last 5-6 weeks
- we just didn't get it done, it starts with myself
- we didn't score enough, the people who were brought in didn't contribute to scoring (...that's a good ol Tobias Rieder blame game Edmonton style)
- Gio sets the tone for the group on and off the ice, but this is a business, so we'll sit down and talk about it (re: expansion protection)

- is not using covid restrictions as an excuse

Can almost quote the bolded for the last 3-4 years verbatim... I cant listen to his BS anymore.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Treliving:

- this was a good team that underachieved
- clearly some holes that we needed to fill/need to fill, there were some holes we failed to fill and going forward we will need to address
- consistently inconsistent, we never got on a roll
- we played a much better team game in the last 5-6 weeks
- we just didn't get it done, it starts with myself
- we didn't score enough, the people who were brought in didn't contribute to scoring (...that's a good ol Tobias Rieder blame game Edmonton style)
- Gio sets the tone for the group on and off the ice, but this is a business, so we'll sit down and talk about it (re: expansion protection)

- is not using covid restrictions as an excuse

At the very least, I am happy he isn't saying how you can't make emotional decisions and need to step back and evaluate things. He has said that for the past 2 off-seasons and that did nothing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

This isn't intended to be confrontational but

If we
- Agree that the team needs to make some level of meaningful change to the forward group

And
- We assume that Monahan's value is probably at an all time low and therefore shouldn't be traded

And
- We are saying that we want to keep Tkachuk, Johnny and Lindholm


Then are we saying just keep the group together again?

[Poe969]

Exactly this. People want to make changes but keep the guys together. This team has has been together long enough for us to know they aren't good enough.

Just change the makeup of the team. They could all go.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Treliving:

- this was a good team that underachieved
- clearly some holes that we needed to fill/need to fill, there were some holes we failed to fill and going forward we will need to address
- consistently inconsistent, we never got on a roll
- we played a much better team game in the last 5-6 weeks
- we just didn't get it done, it starts with myself
- we didn't score enough, the people who were brought in didn't contribute to scoring (...that's a good ol Tobias Rieder blame game Edmonton style)
- Gio sets the tone for the group on and off the ice, one of the best leaders Tree has been around, but this is a business, so we'll sit down and talk about it (re: expansion protection)

- is not using covid restrictions as an excuse
- does not expect to see any cap growth in the foreseeable future

Yuck. This is not a good team. They may have underachieved a bit but if they squeeked into the playoffs the Leafs would have creamed them. Let alone if the divisions were normal.

He's unsuccessfully tied to fill holes for how many years now?

I think we've seen enough of Tre's 'process' over 7 years to conclude that he is a very average, at best, manager.

[Royle9]

Brad when asked pointed question's as he activates his teflon form:

[SeanCharles]

It’s comical how most everyone is piling on the only players who consistently produced any semblance of offence for this team.

So many people arguing over Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Lindholm.

These are the only players, along with Mangiapane, who I would say consistently produced when they were put in the right situations.

Yes, they had stretches of ineffective play but in general they have been good, especially when put together.

When the other 8 forwards barely produce any offence is it any surprise we sucked?

Just cause a team fails doesn’t mean every player on said team can’t be part of a team that succeeds.

Building a team with a handful of good forwards, some youngsters who will have ups and downs and a bunch of 4th liners isn’t a recipe for sucess.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

It’s comical how most everyone is piling on the only players who consistently produced any semblance of offence for this team.

So many people arguing over Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Lindholm.

These are the only players, along with Mangiapane, who I would say consistently produced when they were put in the right situations.

Yes, they had stretches of ineffective play but in general they have been good, especially when put together.

When the other 8 forwards barely produce any offence is it any surprise we sucked?

Just cause a team fails doesn’t mean every player on said team can’t be part of a team that succeeds.

Building a team with a handful of good forwards, some youngsters who will have ups and downs and a bunch of 4th liners isn’t a recipe for sucess.

Same thing happened with Iginla here. Blame the top players, not the fact that the rest of the team is hot garbage.

We have to remember here that top players in this league get paid somewhere in that $8 - $12M range now both in the RFA and UFA worlds.

The only player we have worth anywhere near that is Gaudreau. We signed Gaudreau and Monahan at the same time as Colorado signed Mackinnon. Mackinnon's next contract will be somewhere in that $10-$12M range. Neither Gaudreau nor Monahan will get in that range.

...so do we keep hating on the players we do have for not being better, or do we realize we just don't have top players in this league. The results we have consistently garnered would say that we don't have top players in this league.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This isn't intended to be confrontational but

If we
- Agree that the team needs to make some level of meaningful change to the forward group

And
- We assume that Monahan's value is probably at an all time low and therefore shouldn't be traded

And
- We are saying that we want to keep Tkachuk, Johnny and Lindholm


Then are we saying just keep the group together again?

Tkachuk at 9 million a year would be the 9th highest paid winger in hockey. The only wingers above him would be - Panarin, Kane, Marner, Ovechkin, Stone, Kucherov, Benn, Rantanen. Not sure he is worth that type of scratch and would seem like the most obvious one to trade in my opinion.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This isn't intended to be confrontational but

If we
- Agree that the team needs to make some level of meaningful change to the forward group

And
- We assume that Monahan's value is probably at an all time low and therefore shouldn't be traded

And
- We are saying that we want to keep Tkachuk, Johnny and Lindholm


Then are we saying just keep the group together again?

Possibly, but change is often framed as subtracting certain players, but what about adding players?

Without going into specific trade proposals, what about adding a good center like, say, Sam Reinhart, and a good winger like, say, Taylor Hall to the current group? Would probably have to shed salary, but there is 7-8m clear from Bennett, Ryan and Rittich already, so it's a start. Perhaps Monahan or Backlund could be dumped if necessary.

Just spitballing but I would rather keep the best players and try to augment rather than expect to get a good return for them as that seems like a lateral move at best.

[Nsd1]

Dube will not be joining Team Canada due to a concussion.

Levio broke his thumb a few games ago. No other major injuries outside of Monahan and Hanifin.

[ComixZone]

Dillon Dube won't be able to participate for Team Canada. He was not doing well yesterday (concussion).

Treliving thought our depth was going to be a strength this year. Ha.

[Royle9]

Brad doubles down on his "Toby Rieder" blame game on the new guys.

He also doesn't turn down the idea of a rebuild but continually pushes "changes are need, and how deep we need to change is a priority"

[Jore]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Dillon Dube won't be able to participate for Team Canada. He was not doing well yesterday (concussion).

Treliving thought our depth was going to be a strength this year. Ha.

So deep that we fill our bottom 6 and bottom pairing with PTOs every year

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Exactly this. People want to make changes but keep the guys together. This team has has been together long enough for us to know they aren't good enough.

Just change the makeup of the team. They could all go.

Shouldn’t the changes then start with the team leaders in Gio, Backlund and Monahan?

Especially Gio and Backlund who have been the team leaders for nearly a decade and are in their 30’s?

To me Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, the young forwards and dmen, Markstrom and Tanev can all be part of the solution here.

[Nelson]

Please, please, please do not give up draft picks or prospects to protect Gio. If Seattle wants him, please take the cap space and keep the draft picks and prospects.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Dillon Dube won't be able to participate for Team Canada. He was not doing well yesterday (concussion).

Treliving thought our depth was going to be a strength this year. Ha.

Originally Posted by Royle9

Brad doubles down on his "Toby Rieder" blame game on the new guys.

He also doesn't turn down the idea of a rebuild but continually pushes "changes are need, and how deep we need to change is a priority"

Maybe he'll learn to stop dumpster diving, and used what's in the prospect system then. I keep saying it, but gotta build from within and plant your own garden to eat from.

[Patek23]

If one of Lucic or Giordano are selected by Seattle. How much cap space do we have this off season with Ryan also coming off the books?

[Jore]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Shouldn’t the changes then start with the team leaders in Gio, Backlund and Monahan?

Especially Gio and Backlund who have been the team leaders for nearly a decade and are in their 30’s?

To me Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, the young forwards and dmen, Markstrom and Tanev can all be part of the solution here.

Every team has players as good as the ones we want to keep. The key is to continue to stockpile assets and keep building around them. We skipped this phase for unknown reasons and we've been barely staying afloat since. How are we going to find better players to surround Gaudreau, Lindholm, and Tkachuk with? Who's going to trade players of the quality we need to be a contender for our castoffs?