Sutter "We've given the kids who deserve it, a look"

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Since Seattle will be choosing players from 30 teams, they will want to select some players that they like but are also waiver exempt. There are only 23 spots on their NHL roster so they will select some players that are in a situation to Phillips, no?

I believe he is not waivers exempt next year.
If Seattle claimed him, and then put him on waivers, we would be able to grab him back (although I am not sure if we would have priority)

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I have been vocal on the roster decisions since being eliminated. However, I really liked sutter's comments yesterday. Particularly in dube.

He's been hot garbage this year, biggest disappoint on the team, in my opinion.

I think Valimaki has been a bigger disappointment for me. He’s been..... not good. In fact I’m not even sure he’s an NHL caliber player. There’s a few of those on this roster actually. On the margin.

[442scotty]

Covid has turned all the players worlds upside down. Don’t put much stock in how the kids played this year.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Covid has turned all the players worlds upside down. Don’t put much stock in how the kids played this year.

That's fair.

I am less comfortable giving that "pass" to the older guys on the team who have been questioned for several years now (monahan).

[bubbsy]

Just hearing sutter's statement re: Phillips.

Interesting for him to defer to the gm/front office.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Just hearing sutter's statement re: Phillips.

Interesting for him to defer to the gm/front office.

He’s thrown Tre under the bus a couple times in the last few weeks. Before I thought Gm would be back next year. I’m not so sure now.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think Valimaki has been a bigger disappointment for me. He’s been..... not good. In fact I’m not even sure he’s an NHL caliber player. There’s a few of those on this roster actually. On the margin.

Valimaki has been terrible. I wonder if playing in the Liiga actually caused him to regress a bit and develop bad NHL habits post injury. We should have tried to use him as a big trade chip when his value was highest and Hanifin was showing signs of his turnaround beside Tanev.

I think Dube has been inconsistent, but among the least of the team's actual problems this season. I agree with Sutter's approach though, tough love now should help yield more consistent effort and we'll get the good side of dube more often.

[madmike]

Yeah Valimaki was brutal this year. No way around it. After his showing in the Finnish league I figured his floor was a solid 3rd pairing guy, but he really should not have been in the NHL. He just wasn’t ready.

You can see the potential there, but his defensive awareness stinks at the moment.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

He’s thrown Tre under the bus a couple times in the last few weeks. Before I thought Gm would be back next year. I’m not so sure now.

Would the owners tell the GM to hire a certain coach and then force them to work together for all of next year, even though they don't see eye to eye?

Now that would be dysfunctional.

I'd say that scenario is a distinct possibility.

[Savvy27]

If any player should be given the benefit of the doubt this season, it's Valimaki. He's had an absolute nightmarish couple of years due to multiple serious injuries and then he gets in for his first almost full season and it's a case where he switches leagues mid-year to play for a coach in Ward that he had never played a game for, getting paired with Nestorov who was making his own adjustments and then there was another coaching change mid-season. Add to that, the pandemic and all of the restrictions on him in his personal life, which has to be a challenge since he has been shuttling back and forth between Stockton, Finland, and Calgary for the last couple of years and the inability to spend significant time with his teammates building relationships.

I honestly feel pretty badly for him. He's had a tremendously disappointing season after making some public comments about wanting to be in the Calder conversation and instead of any of that coming true, he's played kind of poorly and has had limited opportunities on the powerplay, been healthy scratched a few times, and also been criticized by the coach on numerous occasions (mostly, I think, because the media has put a target on him by frequently asking about his development and playing time rather than anything he's said or done).

Also, I don't know if it is because Sutter made the comment that Valimaki has to start playing like he has mentally recovered from the injury or if I am actually just noticing it more, but his mobility seems to be pretty limited compared to when he first appeared for the Flames. Hopefully another summer of training and recovery will lead to a big year in 2021-22.

[neo45]

I must see things differently because Valimaki looks fine to me. Slightly under achieving expectations but he’s playing like an effective bottom pair defensemen while working out kinks. Sutter is just playing his mind games

Biggest underachiever relative to expectations for me this year is Rasmus by far. He signed a big contract then took a major step back.

Biggest overachiever is Stone hands down. No one saw that coming. He isn’t just serviceable under Sutter he’s been playing decent

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I have been vocal on the roster decisions since being eliminated. However, I really liked sutter's comments yesterday. Particularly in dube.

He's been hot garbage this year, biggest disappoint on the team, in my opinion.

Hot garbage is a bit much. He hasn’t had a consistent lift in development from last years’ POs which were very good. He’s had some bad games. But he’s been good on many nights as well. It’s not unexpected from a kid. And maybe the lesson of Sam Bennett is that you need to let him play through it and give him more opportunity, since it’s obvious he has skill. I think he needs the challenge Sutter is giving him, but he also needs to play more minutes with good players.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I believe he is not waivers exempt next year.
If Seattle claimed him, and then put him on waivers, we would be able to grab him back (although I am not sure if we would have priority)

The Flames will have pretty high priority on waiver claims for at least the first month of the season. For the first month, it's based on the previous season's final standings, so depending on what happens today, they'll be 12-14th on the priority list to start the season (which includes Seattle -- so a claim from them would have the Flames 11-13th).

Of course, if you claim a player off of waivers, you have to keep him on your NHL roster or put him through waivers yourself, so I don't see that happening either way.

[868904]

I don't think Valimaki or Dube have been that bad, to me, it's just Sutter setting the expectations and mindset high for these two who he envisions as the next core pieces.

I think he sees that there is a strong sense of entitlement with the existing core and doesn't like the way that they were developed. You can't really argue with it. Gaudreau and Monahan had a rough first few seasons under Hartley, a tough NHL coach (maybe too tough). Once Hartley was canned, things got real easy for them. Tkachuk got it easy from the start. Easy ice time, easy power play time. The whole "always earned, never given" went out the window. Bad habits started to creep in especially on the defensive side of the game.

They were fine in regular season games, but when things got real in the playoffs, these guys couldn't handle the adversity.

I don't know how many times this season I heard from the leadership core talk about how they "expected to go on a run", "how other teams have had their winning streaks and we haven't", "we are due for a run". Incredible entitlement. This also came from Giordano as well.

You aren't entitled to wins, you aren't entitled to anything in this league. You earn everything. When you are given things too easy, you don't value the hard work you had to attain it. This core is the most mentally weak group we have ever witnessed and it stems from their entitled attitude.

Good on Darryl for making sure the next wave is not going to follow in the last group's footsteps.

This is the importance of coaching. You need an experienced hand to guide them and develop them properly. You can't hire newbie coaches who just "empower" their players to do whatever they like and expect them to become winners.

[SeanCharles]

It really makes one wonder if the same people who are trashing on Valimaki and/or Dube are the same people calling for a full rebuild…

Young players take time to develop so it’s not unusual to see them struggle early on in their careers.

I know everyone wants these players to jump in seamlessly without hiccup but sometimes they need to learn how to walk before they can run.

I just truly hope the people calling young guys “trash” and thinking they “aren’t even NHL calibre” aren’t the same ones calling for a rebuild because you clearly don’t have the patience to see one through.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

It really makes one wonder if the same people who are trashing on Valimaki and/or Dube are the same people calling for a full rebuild…

Young players take time to develop so it’s not unusual to see them struggle early on in their careers.

I know everyone wants these players to jump in seamlessly without hiccup but sometimes they need to learn how to walk before they can run.

I just truly hope the people calling young guys “trash” and thinking they “aren’t even NHL calibre” aren’t the same ones calling for a rebuild because you clearly don’t have the patience to see one through.

No kidding. They are probably the same people screaming for our "leading scorer from the farm" to get a chance (he is, his name is Adam Ruzicka) not recognizing these two "terrible" young players are younger and done more than the "leading scorer from the farm." Give these kids a chance to learn.

It's one of the reasons I didn't want Sutter near this team. Young guys need a chance to make mistakes and still get ice time. With Sutter, you make a mistake and he lets you "sit and think about it" for long stretches at a time. That really makes young players want to take some risks as they find their way. This team is such a mess and it is all at Treliving's feet. If he isn't unemployed this time next week there is something seriously wrong with this ownership group.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think Valimaki has been a bigger disappointment for me. He’s been..... not good. In fact I’m not even sure he’s an NHL caliber player. There’s a few of those on this roster actually. On the margin.

Valimaki has been a massive disappointment for me as well. I never liked his skating and mobility to begin with, but I figured it would improve over time, but it hasn’t. Maybe the injury has something to do with it, but until it does, he’ll continue to struggle with the pace of the game and that’ll continue to piss Darryl off as he’s been quite critical of his game in the media. Tough love I guess.

I’d have no problem using him as trade bait for Jack Eichel. Would’ve easily done the same for a signed Mark Stone too.

[shogged]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Valimaki has been a massive disappointment for me as well. I never liked his skating and mobility to begin with, but I figured it would improve over time, but it hasn’t. Maybe the injury has something to do with it, but until it does, he’ll continue to struggle with the pace of the game and that’ll continue to piss Darryl off as he’s been quite critical of his game in the media. Tough love I guess.

I’d have no problem using him as trade bait for Jack Eichel. Would’ve easily done the same for a signed Mark Stone too.

how much time does he get? I'm not sure a half season in a weird year is a very reasonable time frame.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by neo45

I must see things differently because Valimaki looks fine to me. Slightly under achieving expectations but he’s playing like an effective bottom pair defensemen while working out kinks. Sutter is just playing his mind games

Biggest underachiever relative to expectations for me this year is Rasmus by far. He signed a big contract then took a major step back.

Biggest overachiever is Stone hands down. No one saw that coming. He isn’t just serviceable under Sutter he’s been playing decent

Excellent read. My thoughts too.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hot garbage is a bit much. He hasn’t had a consistent lift in development from last years’ POs which were very good. He’s had some bad games. But he’s been good on many nights as well. It’s not unexpected from a kid. And maybe the lesson of Sam Bennett is that you need to let him play through it and give him more opportunity, since it’s obvious he has skill. I think he needs the challenge Sutter is giving him, but he also needs to play more minutes with good players.

You're right, hot garbage is definite hyperbole. He looked amazing in the return to play, and the hope was he'd be at least that player coming into this year, let alone some possible growth.

Unfortunately, he's looked like a bottom line forward a lot this season, and his minimal offensive output doesn't offset his defensive liability.