2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Toonage]

Crippled Monahan looked poor with everyone. It will be worth another look in the fall.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Mangiapane is close to graduating to an everyday second liner or already has. Pretty sure he's producing over 0.5 PPG.

Edit: yup, 30 points in 54. Near a 25 goal clip.

Mr. Bread is legit.

Mangiapane is a good player, not sure that anybody would argue differently. I would even agree that "he's close to graduating to an everyday second liner". But why are people ok with slotting him on the top line?

I think it would be tough to build a cup winning team with a career high 17 goal scorer on the top line and a career high 10 goal scorer on your second line, not even taking into account that injuries happen.

I guess it's ok if we plan on missing the playoffs again in 2022.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Crippled Monahan looked poor with everyone. It will be worth another look in the fall.

No it's not....sorry this guy has disappointed me so many times...not enough talent there.

He can't drive a line

[bdubbs]

It's like you completely ignored the previous post with all the statistics showing Mangiapane produces at a 1st liner clip 5v5.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

It's like you completely ignored the previous post with all the statistics showing Mangiapane produces at a 1st liner clip 5v5.

He's a career high 17 goal scorer, to me that isn't first line material on a Stanley cup winning team. I'm not ignoring the stats, I never said he was a bad player. I just think that a top 6 consisting of both Mangiapane and Dube in 2021-22 will not go very far. Dube is only 22 and will only get better.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Crippled Monahan looked poor with everyone. It will be worth another look in the fall.

You can almost look at every team in the playoffs and almost every single one has better offensive centres then Calgary,

Vegas I won't include because they are still reaping the rewards of a very generous entry draft, Minnesota, Nashville and maybe New York are comparable to Calgary, but even those teams are 3-4 slots within their respective divisions. All the elite teams have high end centres.

The only way this team is getting better is through the draft with a proper rebuild, but that ain't going to happen with this stubborn ownership, mediocrity for ever

[Toonage]

lol, nerve struck I suppose

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

He's a career high 17 goal scorer, to me that isn't first line material on a Stanley cup winning team. I'm not ignoring the stats, I never said he was a bad player. I just think that a top 6 consisting of both Mangiapane and Dube in 2021-22 will not go very far. Dube is only 22 and will only get better.

A. People are saying Mangiapane is top 6 not “first line”.

B. Mangiapane’s career high 17 came in only 68 games. He has 16 in only 54 this year. He’s a 20 man, for all intents and purposes.

B. What’s Ondrej Palat’s career high goals? 23, but that was back in 13-14. Last year he scored 17, which tied his career high since that year. What’s Donskoi’s career high? Oh - 17.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by browntrout

You can almost look at every team in the playoffs and almost every single one has better offensive centres then Calgary,

Vegas I won't include because they are still reaping the rewards of a very generous entry draft, Minnesota, Nashville and maybe New York are comparable to Calgary, but even those teams are 3-4 slots within their respective divisions. All the elite teams have high end centres.

The only way this team is getting better is through the draft with a proper rebuild, but that ain't going to happen with this stubborn ownership, mediocrity for ever

Isn’t the assumption that’s being played with that Eichel is on the team? So the top 9 centres are Eichel, Lindholm, Backlund and maybe Monahan, with either Monahan or Lindholm possibly at wing?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Mangiapane is a good player, not sure that anybody would argue differently. I would even agree that "he's close to graduating to an everyday second liner". But why are people ok with slotting him on the top line?

I think it would be tough to build a cup winning team with a career high 17 goal scorer on the top line and a career high 10 goal scorer on your second line, not even taking into account that injuries happen.

I guess it's ok if we plan on missing the playoffs again in 2022.

I would be a proponent of shifting Lindholm back to the wing because he has a proven track record of doing it. If your top 4 C are Eichel, Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund then one of those guys moves to the wing.

I am not sure a team with that type of center depth along with a winning coach and top goalie is a lock to miss the playoffs in this scenario.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gaudreau-Eichel-Mangiapane
Dube-Monahan-Lindholm

Or switch Mangiapane and Dube

Monahan and Mangiapane had Ritchie on the other wing, which caused exactly the same issues as when Monahan and Gaudreau had him.

Or who knows - maybe Zary is ready. Maybe Pelletier can make a leap.

Top line could work, but the second line would have issues in tight checking games, especially come playoff time IMO. Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm have been easily shut down in 2019 and 2020 playoffs. The drop off between Dube and Gaudreau is pretty massive as evidenced by the two winger's performance with the _____-Lindholm-Tkachuk line.

I mean are your lines better than this season, yes. But is the difference enough to take the team to the next level? Therein lies the question.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Mangiapane is a good player, not sure that anybody would argue differently. I would even agree that "he's close to graduating to an everyday second liner". But why are people ok with slotting him on the top line?

I think it would be tough to build a cup winning team with a career high 17 goal scorer on the top line and a career high 10 goal scorer on your second line, not even taking into account that injuries happen.

I guess it's ok if we plan on missing the playoffs again in 2022.

I absolutely love Mangiapane and was even considering buying his jersey. I also would've signed this guy to a 7 year deal last year. But I completely agree with you that playing him on the top line is a bit of a reach. Not saying he couldn't do it, but this comes down to once again, abnormal slotting. Do we want guys playing above where they ideally slot or below where they ideally slot? I'd take the latter.

That's why I would have Mangiapane and Backlund together on the 3rd line. They would dominate other 3rd lines and give the team 15 minutes where they tilt the ice in the team's favor.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Top line could work, but the second line would have issues in tight checking games, especially come playoff time IMO. Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm have been easily shut down in 2019 and 2020 playoffs. The drop off between Dube and Gaudreau is pretty massive as evidenced by the two winger's performance with the _____-Lindholm-Tkachuk line.

I mean are your lines better than this season, yes. But is the difference enough to take the team to the next level? Therein lies the question.

Dube was a beast in the POs though. And maybe if you switch Monahan and Lindholm’s primary positions it works better.

The thing is, you are not getting Eichel without one of Lindholm, Tkachuk or maybe Gaudreau going the other way.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

He's a career high 17 goal scorer, to me that isn't first line material on a Stanley cup winning team. I'm not ignoring the stats, I never said he was a bad player.

way to ignore shortened season lengths or his lack of a powerplay role.

Since February 9th 2019 (halfway into Eatbread's rookie season), here are the entire NHL's Top 30 5v5 Goalscorers:



And again, Eatbread doesn't play on PP1 (for arbitrary reasons) nor does he even play on a line with an elite playmaking center (Pretty much ALL of the above sample was played with Derek Ryan or Mikael Backlund as his center)

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube was a beast in the POs though. And maybe if you switch Monahan and Lindholm’s primary positions it works better.

The thing is, you are not getting Eichel without one of Lindholm, Tkachuk or maybe Gaudreau going the other way.

Dube was very good in the playoffs, but I think the players driving their respective line was Sam Bennett and Milan Lucic. Bennett and especially Lucic have always been excellent playoff performers and their games are tailor made for post season play. I think Dube was more of the beneficiary between the 2. He can hold his own, but if a great line like Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm can be derailed so easily when games get stuck in the mud, then I don't like Dube's chances.

I think the opposition would eat this line up with a 1-2-2 on the rush. They might score more goals checking with the speed along the wings, but I think their cycle game goes straight into the dumper. These 3 don't excel at the cycle game like a Matthew Tkachuk brings to the table. So I could see them being shut down when the game changes.

This is part of the reason why I think the current top line is so good. You have 3 players who drive one particular aspect of the offensive triangle while the other 2 are very good at supporting said driver.


Tkachuk = Drives the cycle game
Lindholm = Drives the checking game
Gaudreau = Drives the rush game


That's what makes the current top line so incredibly dangerous and that's why I'm hesitant to break them up. To all the posters in this thread, ask yourself if the lines you're all visualizing have the ability to score in more than one or two ways. If the answer is no, then the line could be easier to thwart.

[GioforPM]

^^

I think you are struggling to justify keeping your favorite players together after an Eichel trade.

And Dube drove plenty of the play on that line.

[Jore]

Tkachuk and Monahan+ for Eichel and a dump is the obvious call. Much better balanced squad.

[TheScorpion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1394750230877384709

[Geeoff]

Based on the lineups, I'm thinking Kylington and Valimaki are not in the Flames future plans. Valimaki could have some value potentially or worse be used to protect someone in the Expansion Draft

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Based on the lineups, I'm thinking Kylington and Valimaki are not in the Flames future plans. Valimaki could have some value potentially or worse be used to protect someone in the Expansion Draft

The theory I’m going with is that they are protecting them from injury prior to a massive trade or hiding Kylington from Seattle’s view.