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Old 05-17-2021, 01:13 AM   #12201
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Well, maybe make your argument without making up facts, like Toronto playing Tavares on Matthews’ line.

The Lindholm line has been pretty good, but I’m sure not banking on them. They had new line energy all right, and then lit it up even more in garbage time. Is it sustainable? I recall when people here called Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm the best line in hockey.

IMO Lindholm is a lower tier 1C. A 2C on any good team. Gaudreau is a top line guy on most teams, but not the centrepiece, which is OK for a LW. Tkachuk is a second line player because of his limited skating.
You literally just said Tavares had played on Matthew line yourself. Plus, I've seen those guys out together this season because when it occurred, I remember looking at their collective cap hits to see how much that line cost in total. Regardless, whether its Matthews-Marner together or Draisaitl-McDavid, loading up on your top line can be an effective tool to gain offensive traction which is something we didn't see for the majority of the season.

The Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm was a great line for a while, but the league figured out how to defend them because the puck always funnels to the winger and without the centerman driving the defense back with speed, the back pressure from the F3 and F2 allows the D to step up on the winger with the puck. So that line was always going to be doomed with Monahan in the middle when checking got tighter.

Lastly, I don't understand what personal rankings of each individual player means or does exactly, but the line works. There's chemistry and that's what matters the most. They also score in many different ways and they barely get hemmed in their line. It's an infinitely better first line than anything we've seen in this era of the Flames. In the past, Gaudreau's line would be hemmed in for entire shifts at a time, lately it's been a pretty rare occurrence and a big reason for that is Lindholm and Tkachuk. That's something extremely important they offer to Gaudreau's game because the more he can get on the rush, the more often this line can create dangerous scoring chances.
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Old 05-17-2021, 01:24 AM   #12202
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I think everyone on here who wants to keep JG is being a bit blinded by that last few weeks of meaningless games. He has played better but the pressure has been off. When we were playing games that mattered, he was struggling to perform, and please don't blame it on Ward, as he was never on the ice, or Monny's injury.

It it time to move on from JG and a few others, the core needs changing if we want to get over Colarado, which they never have.
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Old 05-17-2021, 01:40 AM   #12203
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I think everyone on here who wants to keep JG is being a bit blinded by that last few weeks of meaningless games. He has played better but the pressure has been off. When we were playing games that mattered, he was struggling to perform, and please don't blame it on Ward, as he was never on the ice, or Monny's injury.

It it time to move on from JG and a few others, the core needs changing if we want to get over Colarado, which they never have.
I think Johnny instantly started playing better when he was put with Lindholm-a Center with speed, and play-driving skills....
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Old 05-17-2021, 01:55 AM   #12204
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I think everyone on here who wants to keep JG is being a bit blinded by that last few weeks of meaningless games. He has played better but the pressure has been off. When we were playing games that mattered, he was struggling to perform, and please don't blame it on Ward, as he was never on the ice, or Monny's injury.

It it time to move on from JG and a few others, the core needs changing if we want to get over Colarado, which they never have.
When Gaudreau was first moved to a line with Lindholm and Tkachuk, the games were extremely meaningful and the majority of the games were absolutely must win, so the pressure was actually immense and his line did their job virtually every night. It wasn't until the Jets game did their chances really fall off a cliff.

Also, I never blame the coach, it's such low hanging fruit to blame the coach for everything. Monahan's injury was halfway into the season, that duos game at even strength hasn't been right since the end of 2018.

I can understand those that want to see Gaudreau and others move on, but I'd ask those people where they expect the goals to come from? Darryl Sutter has said time and time again that goal scoring was this team's biggest issue this season, so unless we're flat out rebuilding, you keep the your team's most skilled and dynamic players and move the deadweight instead.
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Old 05-17-2021, 02:11 AM   #12205
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When Gaudreau was first moved to a line with Lindholm and Tkachuk, the games were extremely meaningful and the majority of the games were absolutely must win, so the pressure was actually immense and his line did their job virtually every night. It wasn't until the Jets game did their chances really fall off a cliff.

Also, I never blame the coach, it's such low hanging fruit to blame the coach for everything. Monahan's injury was halfway into the season, that duos game at even strength hasn't been right since the end of 2018.

I can understand those that want to see Gaudreau and others move on, but I'd ask those people where they expect the goals to come from? Darryl Sutter has said time and time again that goal scoring was this team's biggest issue this season, so unless we're flat out rebuilding, you keep the your team's most skilled and dynamic players and move the deadweight instead.
I used to think JG was one of the problems with this team, but I've changed my tune. I think that if there's not a tear down, the only reason you trade him is if you know for certain that he's not going to re-sign. He may have regressed a bit, but he's still the big dog on offense for this team-a lot of the creativity flows through him. He's proving he just needs a fast, play-driving C to play with, and he's fitting in to DS' way of doing things.

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Old 05-17-2021, 06:55 AM   #12206
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I think everyone on here who wants to keep JG is being a bit blinded by that last few weeks of meaningless games. He has played better but the pressure has been off. When we were playing games that mattered, he was struggling to perform, and please don't blame it on Ward, as he was never on the ice, or Monny's injury.

It it time to move on from JG and a few others, the core needs changing if we want to get over Colarado, which they never have.
He’s been playing better for the last 10-15 games. Basically since he got away from Monahan.

The problem isn Gaudreau. The problem is everyone figure out how to defend Gaudreau, Monahan and some random scrub.

This team needs help scoring. Don’t get rid of your best offense generator.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:25 AM   #12207
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Disclaimer that this site is straight trash so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2021/0...ffer-huge.html

Mentions the Athletic article about the flames and Eichel with the Tkachuk, Zary, 1st. They then mention Friedman stated the Flames were talking to the Sabres about Reinhart at the deadline?

They come up with a blockbuster for both Eichel and Reinhart that adds Lindholm to the package above. Personally I would prefer to cut Lindholm and Reinhart out of the deal. If Monahan can be part of the deal instead of Lindholm I would add picks or other young players to make up the difference.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:35 AM   #12208
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The only way you trade Lindholm is if you're going scorched earth and even then, the team would have to over pay. Getting Eichel would be a mistake right now.
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:37 AM   #12209
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He’s been playing better for the last 10-15 games. Basically since he got away from Monahan.

The problem isn Gaudreau. The problem is everyone figure out how to defend Gaudreau, Monahan and some random scrub.

This team needs help scoring. Don’t get rid of your best offense generator.
Not many are saying “get rid of him”. There are many who, with good reason, think he has to be traded before his LNTC kicks in. If he is intent on leaving, he’s pretty much like a pending UFA right now.
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:24 AM   #12210
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Originally Posted by Vinny01 View Post
Disclaimer that this site is straight trash so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2021/0...ffer-huge.html

Mentions the Athletic article about the flames and Eichel with the Tkachuk, Zary, 1st. They then mention Friedman stated the Flames were talking to the Sabres about Reinhart at the deadline?

They come up with a blockbuster for both Eichel and Reinhart that adds Lindholm to the package above. Personally I would prefer to cut Lindholm and Reinhart out of the deal. If Monahan can be part of the deal instead of Lindholm I would add picks or other young players to make up the difference.
If Lindholm is added, no thanks.

Would rather give up Monahan. We’re already giving up quite a bit with Tkachuk/Zary/1st.

Would go Tkachuk + Monahan + 2021 1st + Phillips for Eichel and Reinhart. If we’re not going to play Phillips we may as well give him to a team that will.

If we can hold ont Zary that would be best. If they want Zary or Pelletier to seal the deal over Phillips then I do it.

Mangiapane/Dube - Eichel - Reinhart
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube/Mangiapane

Is a solid top 6. Pair up Gaudreau with Eichel or Lindholm and Reinhart with the other.
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:32 AM   #12211
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Flames would still need to fill out their roster, sign RFAs etc.

That deal would severely hamper their flexibility to do just that
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:33 AM   #12212
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If Lindholm is added, no thanks.

Would rather give up Monahan. We’re already giving up quite a bit with Tkachuk/Zary/1st.

Would go Tkachuk + Monahan + 2021 1st + Phillips for Eichel and Reinhart. If we’re not going to play Phillips we may as well give him to a team that will.

If we can hold ont Zary that would be best. If they want Zary or Pelletier to seal the deal over Phillips then I do it.

Mangiapane/Dube - Eichel - Reinhart
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube/Mangiapane

Is a solid top 6. Pair up Gaudreau with Eichel or Lindholm and Reinhart with the other.

I think it is easier taking Reinhart out. If you believe that Tkachuk+Zary+1st is an overpay then adding Reinhart and Monahan even it out but I think the flames need to add to that package. If it is one of their additional 2nds that would be fine or maybe another piece like Philips?

Monahan+Tkachuk+Zary+Philips+1st+2nd
For
Eichel+Reinhart.

Eichel, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Reinhart, Mangiapane,, Dube

That is a pretty strong top 6 forwards with Backlund and Lucic in the bottom 6 I think that is a strong team
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:37 AM   #12213
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One question - does Eichel and Reinhart get along in the dressing room?
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:41 AM   #12214
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You literally just said Tavares had played on Matthew line yourself. Plus, I've seen those guys out together this season because when it occurred, I remember looking at their collective cap hits to see how much that line cost in total. Regardless, whether its Matthews-Marner together or Draisaitl-McDavid, loading up on your top line can be an effective tool to gain offensive traction which is something we didn't see for the majority of the season.

The Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm was a great line for a while, but the league figured out how to defend them because the puck always funnels to the winger and without the centerman driving the defense back with speed, the back pressure from the F3 and F2 allows the D to step up on the winger with the puck. So that line was always going to be doomed with Monahan in the middle when checking got tighter.

Lastly, I don't understand what personal rankings of each individual player means or does exactly, but the line works. There's chemistry and that's what matters the most. They also score in many different ways and they barely get hemmed in their line. It's an infinitely better first line than anything we've seen in this era of the Flames. In the past, Gaudreau's line would be hemmed in for entire shifts at a time, lately it's been a pretty rare occurrence and a big reason for that is Lindholm and Tkachuk. That's something extremely important they offer to Gaudreau's game because the more he can get on the rush, the more often this line can create dangerous scoring chances.
I said 2 years ago they played together 3% of Tavares time and scored no points. They had zero time on a line last year. You don't have to believe me - go look it up on Dobber.
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:51 AM   #12215
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That is a pretty strong top 6 forwards with Backlund and Lucic in the bottom 6 I think that is a strong team
Leaves us about 12M for a 3rd line centre, an entire 4th line, any extra skaters, a backup goalie, resigning Dube, Valimaki, and Mackey.

So, not impossible, but tight.
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Old 05-17-2021, 10:59 AM   #12216
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Leaves us about 12M for a 3rd line centre, an entire 4th line, any extra skaters, a backup goalie, resigning Dube, Valimaki, and Mackey.

So, not impossible, but tight.
Gio could also be claimed by Seattle which would require a top 4 D replacement as well as an additional $6.75M in cap space.

Backlund/Dube could be the third line C as well
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Old 05-17-2021, 11:15 AM   #12217
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One question - does Eichel and Reinhart get along in the dressing room?
Yes, they're best friends on the team.
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Old 05-17-2021, 11:25 AM   #12218
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Gio could also be claimed by Seattle which would require a top 4 D replacement as well as an additional $6.75M in cap space.

Backlund/Dube could be the third line C as well
I think if Gio got claimed and you replaced him it's probably about a $2M savings. But there aren't too many UFA D coming up. Hamilton is currently a pending UFA, but I expect that won't be for long and they couldn't afford him anyway. After him it's guys like Barrie, Montour, Savard, Oleksiak.
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Old 05-17-2021, 11:44 AM   #12219
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I think if Gio got claimed and you replaced him it's probably about a $2M savings. But there aren't too many UFA D coming up. Hamilton is currently a pending UFA, but I expect that won't be for long and they couldn't afford him anyway. After him it's guys like Barrie, Montour, Savard, Oleksiak.
Could also target a team looking to move a 4M contract on the back end?

I feel like there would be a decent chance to see Valimaki come back and push his way into that top 4 role.
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Old 05-17-2021, 11:52 AM   #12220
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If Lindholm is added, no thanks.

Would rather give up Monahan. We’re already giving up quite a bit with Tkachuk/Zary/1st.

Would go Tkachuk + Monahan + 2021 1st + Phillips for Eichel and Reinhart. If we’re not going to play Phillips we may as well give him to a team that will.

If we can hold ont Zary that would be best. If they want Zary or Pelletier to seal the deal over Phillips then I do it.

Mangiapane/Dube - Eichel - Reinhart
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube/Mangiapane

Is a solid top 6. Pair up Gaudreau with Eichel or Lindholm and Reinhart with the other.
I would expect that the value of Zary or Pelltier over Phillips is quite substantial.
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