Brad Treliving needs to go

[timbit]

“Seismic“ is the perfect word.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Pretty sure Treliving had a better handle on the Brodie/Hamonic situations than any one of us.

Although, I guess we should have expected that he should have had a better line of communication with the World Health Organization and foresaw the impending pandemic and its impact on the world and the league.

lol ... i guess you can shove all those months between the Flames losing to Colorado in April of 2019 to end of February 2020 down the covid memory hole.

Fact remains everyone knew those contracts were coming due and Calgary came up empty getting anything on either of those players.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by timbit

....,and Valimaki and Andersson.

And anyone else playing D on the Flames.

So if others see it as you do, he might net the biggest return in a bigger area of need. Guess i'm not convinced that shuffling the deck chairs amongst the forwards is going to net the improved goal scoring that some believe it will.

The Bruins and Islanders certainly seemed to survive trading away core pieces of the blueline. Although in the case of NYI, he maybe wasn't such a core piece.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Jeremy Lauzon played 41 games this year for the Bruins and 19 games last year so he looks like he is a NHL player

Formenton played 20 games for the Sens as a 21 year old, so he looks like he is a NHL player.

It is likely that one or two more pan out on that list, so even in a world where you compare just the players that were picked there are 7 players on that list.

The assets the Flames have left from those trades 24-48 months later are

Hanifin
Lindholm (although I would argue you should really only count one of these two players as Fox and Ferland were probably worth one of them)

I might be missing an asset from those trades, but that is really all I can think of.

Giving up 5 NHL players and potentially one or two more, all of whom are cost controlled to varying degrees for the first 7 years of their careers for one NHL asset is a tough look.

I’m meh on Treliving at best, but don’t we have to also set off players drafted with picks acquired by Treliving? Andersson, Dube, Phillips, Parsons and Wolf for example? Also, a couple like Lauzon and Looke were not actually Calgary picks (they were drafted Washington picks traded to Calgary for Glencross). Plus those picks were used in packages for Hamilton and Kylington.

I mean, yes, in 2016 you lost Kyrou (or someone around there) and Nordgren (or someone around that pick) for Elliott, but you got Dube (plus Jokipakka and and Pollock) for Russell.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

lol ... i guess you can shove all those months between the Flames losing to Colorado in April of 2019 to end of February 2020 down the covid memory hole.

Fact remains everyone knew those contracts were coming due and Calgary came up empty getting anything on either of those players.

Much like trading draft picks, letting players get to UFA status is something all GM’s do. It’s the cost of doing business and you can expect the same for Treliving’s replacement when ever that comes along.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Jeremy Lauzon played 41 games this year for the Bruins and 19 games last year so he looks like he is a NHL player

Formenton played 20 games for the Sens as a 21 year old, so he looks like he is a NHL player.

It is likely that one or two more pan out on that list, so even in a world where you compare just the players that were picked there are 7 players on that list.

The assets the Flames have left from those trades 24-48 months later are

Hanifin
Lindholm (although I would argue you should really only count one of these two players as Fox and Ferland were probably worth one of them)

I might be missing an asset from those trades, but that is really all I can think of.

Giving up 5 NHL players and potentially one or two more, all of whom are cost controlled to varying degrees for the first 7 years of their careers for one NHL asset is a tough look.

I actually think the Flames end up picking Alex Debrincat if they don’t trade for Brian Elliott. He’s right up their alley in terms of their drafting mantra, smaller and more skilled. Alex Debrincat would fix everything that ails the Flames wing conundrum. Skilled, right shot, elite sniper. Damn that Brian Elliott. Guy couldn’t catch in St Louis and he couldn’t catch here either. Terrible goaltender.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m meh on Treliving at best, but don’t we have to also set off players drafted with picks acquired by Treliving? Andersson, Dube, Phillips, Parsons and Wolf for example? Also, a couple like Lauzon and Looke were not actually Calgary picks (they were drafted Washington picks traded to Calgary for Glencross). Plus those picks were used in packages for Hamilton and Kylington.

I mean, yes, in 2016 you lost Kyrou (or someone around there) and Nordgren (or someone around that pick) for Elliott, but you got Dube (plus Jokipakka and and Pollock) for Russell.

I was merely correcting who is currently a NHL player in terms of mentioning Lauzon and Formenton.

The bigger issue is the perplexing strategy of burning picks on a net level. Treliving does that more than any other organization over the past 7 years. That is a bad strategy for any team that cannot attract top tier UFA's or is not a legitimate Stanley Cup contender like Tampa. It just seems so painfully obvious that that is not the correct approach for an organization like Calgary.

I don't really blame him for not moving Hamonic last year, all he could have received for him was likely a 3rd or maybe a 2nd round pick. That would be a pretty brutal self-own, so no GM is going to do that. But losing assets for nothing is something the team has done most years with the exception of Brad's first year when he traded some expiring Feaster assets for picks, despite being clearly in the playoff hunt. And it was the correct strategy, and one that the ownership who is apparently playoffs or bust were comfortable with. But then that strategy was abandoned by 2016/2017.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I was merely correcting who is currently a NHL player in terms of mentioning Lauzon and Formenton.

The bigger issue is the perplexing strategy of burning picks on a net level. Treliving does that more than any other organization over the past 7 years. That is a bad strategy for any team that cannot attract top tier UFA's or is not a legitimate Stanley Cup contender like Tampa. It just seems so painfully obvious that that is not the correct approach for an organization like Calgary.

I don't really blame him for not moving Hamonic last year, all he could have received for him was likely a 3rd or maybe a 2nd round pick. That would be a pretty brutal self-own, so no GM is going to do that. But losing assets for nothing is something the team has done most years with the exception of Brad's first year when he traded some expiring Feaster assets for picks, despite being clearly in the playoff hunt. And it was the correct strategy, and one that the ownership who is apparently playoffs or bust were comfortable with. But then that strategy was abandoned by 2016/2017.

On a net level Treliving is almost at par for trading picks versus acquiring them over his seven years. He’s only a little on the minus side. But the fact Hamonic didn’t work out and was one of the biggest expenditures is what sticks out in people’s memories.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

On a net level Treliving is almost at par for trading picks versus acquiring them over his seven years. He’s only a little on the minus side. But the fact Hamonic didn’t work out and was one of the biggest expenditures is what sticks out in people’s memories.

Over the last 6 years the Flames have had 13 picks in the first 3 rounds. If they would have had the picks every team starts with they would have had 18. Those lost 5 picks represent a 28% reduction, which would be hard to argue as being almost par. Hard to count the 2014 draft as Brad had a very limited ability to fire sale picks for that draft given the short amount of time that he was here. Even if you include the Bennett draft it means they are down 4 picks.

The Flames drafted 2 fewer times in the first round, had one fewer 2nd round pick and two fewer 3rd round picks than what each team is allotted. Brad traded down twice last year in the first round, which may or may not have diminished the player the Flames picked to pick up two 3rd round picks, otherwise they would be down 4 3rd round picks in 6 years.

Either way, no other team is down 5 top 90 picks over the last 6 seasons.

[Strange Brew]

I have a hard time giving a GM much credit for selling off pending UFA’s for picks when the team is way out of the playoffs. That is standard operating procedure.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Over the last 6 years the Flames have had 13 picks in the first 3 rounds. If they would have had the picks every team starts with they would have had 18. Those lost 5 picks represent a 28% reduction, which would be hard to argue as being almost par. Hard to count the 2014 draft as Brad had a very limited ability to fire sale picks for that draft given the short amount of time that he was here. Even if you include the Bennett draft it means they are down 4 picks.

The Flames drafted 2 fewer times in the first round, had one fewer 2nd round pick and two fewer 3rd round picks than what each team is allotted. Brad traded down twice last year in the first round, which may or may not have diminished the player the Flames picked to pick up two 3rd round picks, otherwise they would be down 4 3rd round picks in 6 years.

Either way, no other team is down 5 top 90 picks over the last 6 seasons.

All fair and well, but Treliving has also stockpiled 3 1st’s, 5 2nds, & 5 3rds from 2020 to 2022. Haven’t done the deep dive, but I would imagine that’s in the top 1/3 of the league. (I’m including Hieneman)

Of course, this could go either way....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have a hard time giving a GM much credit for selling off pending UFA’s for picks when the team is way out of the playoffs. That is standard operating procedure.

I’m not giving extra credit. You are correct - it’s not unusual. But he also got a pick for Sven around the same time. Nor is selling picks for a good player. Treliving’s mistake was in player evaluation, not the whole concept. No one complains about Stone or Lindholm or Hanifin being acquired for picks.

And in several cases, the picks he sold for players were the same ones he picked up for the said pending UFAs.

[ComixZone]

Arguing about what he did right vs. what he did wrong is almost pointless at this stage.

Treliving is a poor General Manager because in seven years at his job he has failed to improve the on-ice results in any sort of meaningful way.

Where I get downright sad as a Flames fan is that we’ve ended up back where we were when Treliving took over, and our prospect base is worse. We don’t have a Gaudreau or a Monahan in our prospect pool. The results are the same, and the future is bleak.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m not giving extra credit. You are correct - it’s not unusual. But he also got a pick for Sven around the same time. Nor is selling picks for a good player. Treliving’s mistake was in player evaluation, not the whole concept. No one complains about Stone or Lindholm or Hanifin being acquired for picks.

And in several cases, the picks he sold for players were the same ones he picked up for the said pending UFAs.

Stone, Lindholm, Hanifin? Stone was a bad trade and worse signing/buyout.

Lindholm and Hanifin weren’t acquired for picks.

But yes I agree that if he was truly forced by ownership to trade picks for players, he didn’t a good job of getting value for his picks. And we’re lucky the fax jammed for the Zucker trade I guess.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Arguing about what he did right vs. what he did wrong is almost pointless at this stage.

Treliving is a poor General Manager because in seven years at his job he has failed to improve the on-ice results in any sort of meaningful way.

Where I get downright sad as a Flames fan is that we’ve ended up back where we were when Treliving took over, and our prospect base is worse. We don’t have a Gaudreau or a Monahan in our prospect pool. The results are the same, and the future is bleak.

Simply not true.

The organization is in a much better spot. Not too sure how you could say otherwise.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Stone, Lindholm, Hanifin? Stone was a bad trade and worse signing/buyout.

Lindholm and Hanifin weren’t acquired for picks.

But yes I agree that if he was truly forced by ownership to trade picks for players, he didn’t a good job of getting value for his picks. And we’re lucky the fax jammed for the Zucker trade I guess.

Lindholm and Hanifin were acquired for Hamilton, who was acquired for picks.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Stone, Lindholm, Hanifin? Stone was a bad trade and worse signing/buyout.

Lindholm and Hanifin weren’t acquired for picks.

But yes I agree that if he was truly forced by ownership to trade picks for players, he didn’t a good job of getting value for his picks. And we’re lucky the fax jammed for the Zucker trade I guess.

You say this, but you don’t know what the value of these picks/players were.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Lindholm and Hanifin were acquired for Hamilton, who was acquired for picks.

Fair enough. Most everyone was drafted. Of course Ferland and Fox were included in that trade too.

Guess I don't really look at it as a first, 2 seconds, a third and a fifth for Hanifin and Lindholm.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You say this, but you don’t know the value of this picks/players were.

He's taken a mediocre team and set it up for further mediocrity.

So sure, credit to treliving for not completely f'ing the whole thing up here, but is that really enough to keep him around.

I feel like we have are so accustomed to the ways of a completely useless franchise, that anything short of a massive failure is applauded.

Of the 31 or whatever GMs out there, I'd argue treliving is a bottom 10 or, at best, bottom half gm.

Until the fans demand more nothing will change. If Toronto can finally go thru a patient rebuild, why not Calgary?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

All fair and well, but Treliving has also stockpiled 3 1st’s, 5 2nds, & 5 3rds from 2020 to 2022. Haven’t done the deep dive, but I would imagine that’s in the top 1/3 of the league. (I’m including Hieneman)

Of course, this could go either way....

I’m not sure I would use the word “stock pile” to describe simply not trading any first round picks over a 3 year period.

And why include a prospect that wasn’t a draft pick?


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