[News] Sean Monahan done for the season. Needs hip surgery. Will be ready for training camp

[DeluxeMoustache]

I’d take the goal scoring and let Sutter work on the D. Lindholm and Monahan are both 1As
You can’t strap unskilled Ritchie to hobbled Monahan and expect magic

Team needs to upgrade on RW and D, not sell off distressed assets due to the GM’s bungling

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The guy looked really good early in the season. Clearly there was an injury he was playing through, severe enough to require surgery. And here is a discussion on his toughness

Musing over how we decide which players get a pass for how they perform when playing with documented injuries

No kidding. Sutter thinks he was tough. Good enough for me.

[Flamesfan05]

Duplicate

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You can’t strap unskilled Ritchie to hobbled Monahan and expect magic

The is completely false to justify a narrative.


Monahan has been ineffective for 2.5-3 yrs now. Ritchie was on his line for maybe 3 wks. He has been with one of the premiere players in the league the whole time except a few games.


Time for him to go. The Flames simple can not win with the Johnny/Monahan combo.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The is completely false to justify a narrative.


Monahan has been ineffective for 2.5-3 yrs now. Ritchie was on his line for maybe 3 wks. He has been with one of the premiere players in the league the whole time except a few games.


Time for him to go. The Flames simple can not win with the Johnny/Monahan combo.

3 years ago when he had a career high 82 points?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

3 years ago when he had a career high 82 points?

He and the entire first line dropped off significantly that season from the all star break onward.

So that's 2.5 seasons of hockey & 2 playoff rounds he has been far below expectations.
Perhaps with different injuries each of those seasons but under performing one way or another.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So we know he was hurt for the entire time Darryl was here

Was his 20 points in his first 25 games ok, or is he really the 8 points in his last 25 guy and the injury is just an excuse?

I am glad a lot of people here aren’t GM because they would run anybody good out of town, establishing values of Calgary assets at pennies on the dollar.

It already happened once this year in spectacularly unglamorous Flames fashion

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

His game, and his value to the team, is scoring goals. Full stop.
He was never thought of as an extremely high end skater, playmaker or defensive guru.
So, this year was pretty terrible. Not enough goals and I doubt anyone would argue that.
However, I don't think we need to write him off completely. It has been 2 really weird years and a number of tough injuries. I think he still has plenty of value as a goal scoring centre, so if you can extract value, great. I just wouldn't give him away, which is what some seem to be advocating.

I don’t understand these arguments. “His game is goal scoring and it’s okay that he brings nothing else to the table.”

That’s not a centre. That’s James Neal.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So we know he was hurt for the entire time Darryl was here

Was his 20 points in his first 25 games ok, or is he really the 8 points in his last 25 guy and the injury is just an excuse?

I am glad a lot of people here aren’t GM because they would run anybody good out of town, establishing values of Calgary assets at pennies on the dollar.

It already happened once this year in spectacularly unglamorous Flames fashion

If he’s as good as you say why are other teams only offering pennies for him?

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Goriders

If he’s as good as you say why are other teams only offering pennies for him?

Can you show me some of these offers (actual ones, not the ones you made up with your friends), I didn't know the Flames have turned down trades for Monahan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The is completely false to justify a narrative.


Monahan has been ineffective for 2.5-3 yrs now. Ritchie was on his line for maybe 3 wks. He has been with one of the premiere players in the league the whole time except a few games.


Time for him to go. The Flames simple can not win with the Johnny/Monahan combo.

3 weeks? He had Ritchie and Mangiapane for probably 3 weeks. He had Gaudreau and Ritchie for at least another month. And aside from Ritchie he had Simon, Leivo and a couple games of Bennett. It’s not like having a utility guy like Frolik, who can chip in - it’s a hole on 1/3 of the ice.

No one argues Monahan has been good - he hasn’t, not offensively anyway. But the RW issue was a real hindrance.

[MrMike]

The dudes a sniper. You still need those on the team. Sure Phil Kessel won’t win you a cup alone but you need those depth different types of players. When Monahan is healthy he’s good for 30 goals a year.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No one argues Monahan has been good - he hasn’t, not offensively anyway. But the RW issue was a real hindrance.

And last year, when he had Lindholm on his RW for the whole season? Or even 2018-19 after the ASB?

I'm going to be honest, I too think Monahan can get back to being a productive scorer, especially if this surgery is a success.

My issue with him remains the one I've had with him for his entire career though - his style of play is ill-suited for one of a team's two best centers. Even Backlund is better-suited to a top six center role, despite the obvious gap in "hands".

If your top line or even second line center is not someone in whose hands you want the puck... what's the point?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And last year, when he had Lindholm on his RW for the whole season? Or even 2018-19 after the ASB?

I'm going to be honest, I too think Monahan can get back to being a productive scorer, especially if this surgery is a success.

My issue with him remains the one I've had with him for his entire career though - his style of play is ill-suited for one of a team's two best centers. Even Backlund is better-suited to a top six center role, despite the obvious gap in "hands".

If your top line or even second line center is not someone in whose hands you want the puck... what's the point?

You are arguing against something I’m not saying. I was talking solely about the Ritchie stuff.

That said, I think Monahan’s all around game is underrated here, at least when he’s scoring. He’s just not as bad with the puck as people think. He doesn’t dangle through defenders, but he makes good smart passes, he’s decent at regaining pucks that are up for grabs and he can carry the puck through the NZ when he wants to. He just has deferred a lot in his career because he played with someone better than him at those things. It was noticeable right after the line switch, especially when he had two good wingers to pass to in Mangiapane and Dube.

When Ritchie was inserted, Monahan really only had the left side to pass to (and Mangiapane only had Monahan). This made him look a lot worse at “being a centre”.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I remember seeing a stat a while ago that raised my eyebrows - Bergeron was nowhere close in playing tough minutes like Backlund was. That was a few seasons ago. I remember specifically that Bergeron had way more offensive zone starts, for instance.

What gets lost in "offensive zone starts" is that over something like 70% of zone starts are on the fly.

So if a guy has 60% or 40% ozs, it doesn't really matter. It's the difference between 18% or 12% of your starts being an offensive zone faceoff.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are arguing against something I’m not saying.

You're downplaying your response to a post that, verbatim stated:

"Monahan has been ineffective for 2.5-3 yrs now."

That's got little to do with Ritchie whether it was three weeks or seven.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're downplaying your response to a post that, verbatim stated:

"Monahan has been ineffective for 2.5-3 yrs now."

That's got little to do with Ritchie whether it was three weeks or seven.

That was the response to my post, and someone else responded to it. First, it’s hyperbole as was noted, since 2018-19 was a career year, over PPG (and that wasn’t all just pre ASG). So we’re talking the two COVID seasons. Last year was messed up in a bunch of ways. The whole line was off, not just Monahan. Lindholm dropped 24 pts, Gaudreau dropped 40 (!). Monahan dropped by 34 or so. He had more assists than Lindholm, for all his poor puck skills.

I’ve always said this team’s players were slotted a tier above where they’d play on a contender. That’s the case with Monahan.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So we know he was hurt for the entire time Darryl was here

Was his 20 points in his first 25 games ok, or is he really the 8 points in his last 25 guy and the injury is just an excuse?

I am glad a lot of people here aren’t GM because they would run anybody good out of town, establishing values of Calgary assets at pennies on the dollar.

It already happened once this year in spectacularly unglamorous Flames fashion

The biggest concern I have for Sean Monahan is his inability to produce with Johnny Gaudreau. This latest stretch here isn’t much different from the stretch in 2016-17 when Gaudreau was injured. I recall the head coach almost healthy scratching Monahan in that 11 games Gaudreau was away.

I’ve made the comparison in the past that Monahan is a bit like James Neal. Obviously not as useless, but Monahan will always require a winger who can play with pace and drive up the ice with the puck. Monahan is simply too slow, not nimble and he cannot use his body to effectively shield the puck. So he will always need to defer to his 2 wingers to drive play and be the primary playmakers which is big problem because of how easy it is for the opposition to hone in and defend a single winger. It’s probably why Andrew Mangiapane works better with a Mikael Backlund than a Sean Monahan too.

I also dislike Monahan’s lack of variety in the goal scoring department. He scores the majority or his goals in front of the net or being completely wide open in the slot where he releases his extremely telegraphed wrist shot. Too easy and predictable to shut down as we’ve seen this season and even in parts of 18-19 and 19-20. If he had some breakaway speed or the ability to tip pucks or could generate his own shot from a distance, but I think he completely Flames out without Gaudreau.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

3 weeks? He had Ritchie and Mangiapane for probably 3 weeks. He had Gaudreau and Ritchie for at least another month. And aside from Ritchie he had Simon, Leivo and a couple games of Bennett. It’s not like having a utility guy like Frolik, who can chip in - it’s a hole on 1/3 of the ice.

No one argues Monahan has been good - he hasn’t, not offensively anyway. But the RW issue was a real hindrance.

Isn’t the real problem Monahan’s $6.3M cap hit then? If he didn’t cost so much for what he does, maybe Treliving could’ve found a half decent winger for Monahan to play with. He’s one of the most expensive players on the team and he doesn’t elevate the play of his wingers which is what a good center does. Andrew Mangiapane for instance I don’t think misses Monahan at all. 2 games back with Backlund + Nordstrom and he already has a goal and an assist. We can also come to the conclusion that Nordstrom and Ritchie are also a wash.

So, Brett Ritchie might be the casualty this season. But lets say Monahan plays with another league minimum scrub because that’s all they can afford due to this team’s poor cap situation. It’ll be the same story, just with a different name.

[troutman]

Reminds me of Milos Raonic. Big weapon (sniper), lacks overall game, often injured.