[News] Eichel: Sabres wouldn't let me get surgery on herniated disk in neck

[saillias]

would he actually want to play here? An American born guy who took the college route. A western Canadian team with a middle of the pack or bottom 3rd of hte league roster that needs a rebuild. Even if he has no choice in the matter it doesn't seem like a situation he'd be happy to go to after escaping Buffalo.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by saillias

would he actually want to play here? An American born guy who took the college route. A western Canadian team with a middle of the pack or bottom 3rd of hte league roster that needs a rebuild. Even if he has no choice in the matter it doesn't seem like a situation he'd be happy to go to after escaping Buffalo.

Answer found here:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Eichel was a former teammate of both Auston Matthews and Matthew Tkachuk in 2013-14... Americans who play in Canada. His draftmates McDavid, Hanifin, and Marner all play in Canada. His Hobey Baker predecessor, and World Cup teammate John Gaudreau plays in Canada. The City of Buffalo is literally ten minutes from the Canadian Border, and Massechussetts where he's from is pretty far North as well. He's not exactly living in southern California right now.

The Flames are currently not a playoff team... were the 2017-18 St. Louis Blues a playoff team when Buffalo shipped Eichel's teammate Ryan O'Rielly there? Fact is, the Flames have made the playoffs four our of the last seven years. The last time we missed the playoffs, we followed that season up by placing 1st in the conference.

The core is playing poorly? Gaudreau in a down year has 42 pts in 52 games. Giordano even at his advanced age is a better two way defenseman than anyone Buffalo has employed in Eichel's career, likewise Tanev, Hanifin, and Andersson. Contrast that with the miserable pair of seasons Dahlin has had on the Sabres' backend. Lindholm's had a strong season, albeit overmatched as a number one center. Tkachuk and Monahan? The former is due for a bounceback year and the latter is probably part of any Eichel trade.

Prospect rankings? Do you think there's a player in the NHL who follows or considers prospect rankings? The Sabres have consistently had some of the best prospect rankings and seen, for various reasons, huge name prospects like Sam Reinhart, Alex Nylander, Casey Middlestadt, and Rasmus Dahlin virtually flop. The Flames have turned prospects like Mangiapane and Andersson into respectable NHLers over the same period. And yes I am aware the Sabres have played better hockey since the coaching change and some of those names might still live up to predraft expectations... but Jack Eichel hasn't played for the post-Kreuger Sabres and may not care.

Overall, I think you're looking at this whole thing from the perspective of a jaded Flames fan, not a player looking for a change of scenery. The Flames have plenty of appealing aspects.

They have a three time cup winning head coach.
Most of their core is all in their mid-twenties.
They have a Norris winning defenseman along with more age appropriate blueliners.
They have a 99 point left winger who excels in the deft, delicate, deadly game.
They have another ppg left winger who excels in the netfront game.
Their GM has never missed playoffs in consecutive seasons.
Their biggest hole is at number one center... which is what he is.
Their other biggest hole is right handed shot goal scoring forwards... which he is.
They have multiple elite two way centers who can both play middle six.
They have an on-paper starting goaltender locked up to term.
They have leader types like Lucic and Backlund on their bottom six.
They annually spend to the cap, and players generally consider them a classy organization.




That's like, your opinion, man.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

After watching Eichel's 19/20 highlights on Youtube, it is clear to see he does everything at an elite level. Skating, shooting and passing. It's all there. He's a gamebreaker.

It's not all there. If it were he would be have willed that team to a playoff birth a long time ago (or hell even playoff contention for that matter).

Jack Eichel is an immensely talented hockey player. He's also very flawed in the sense that he only competes when he feels like it, and has a consistent tendency to stop playing throughout games. This guy coasts around more on a shift to shift basis than any other star player in the NHL.

He in no way, shape, or form should be a captain of an NHL organization, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they have lacked an identify as a team since he was given the keys to the franchise.

He has franchise changing skills, but he certainly has not shown the ability to be a franchise altering contributor (atleast at this point).

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by saillias

would he actually want to play here? An American born guy who took the college route. A western Canadian team with a middle of the pack or bottom 3rd of hte league roster that needs a rebuild. Even if he has no choice in the matter it doesn't seem like a situation he'd be happy to go to after escaping Buffalo.

I think if he a no trade clause he would use it to nix a trade to the Flames, but he doesn't so I imagine he would just be so happy to get away from the Sabres that he would just roll with it for now, especially if the Flames hang on to Johnny.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mull

Answer found here:

Well, based on the temperature of the board and how down on the team and players most posters are...

They have a three time cup winning head coach... who would make him play a more structured game that would ultimately impact his scoring and personal stats.
Most of their core is all in their mid-twenties... which is when they all start to suck and need to be traded.
They have a Norris winning defenseman along with more age appropriate blueliners... a 38 year old former Norris trophy winner. Not sure what an age appropriate defenseman is.
They have a 99 point left winger who excels in the deft, delicate, deadly game... a former 99 point left winger who is scared of his own shadow and is a UFA at the end of next season.
They have another ppg left winger who excels in the netfront game... whose GAF meter is on empty and the fans are all over him.
Their GM has never missed playoffs in consecutive seasons... but has amassed a team that looks positioned to miss for seasons to come.
Their biggest hole is at number one center... which is what he is... we hope.
Their other biggest hole is right handed shot goal scoring forwards... which he is... so he better get used to feeding himself passes so that right handed scorer can take advantage of that number one center.
They have multiple elite two way centers who can both play middle six... both of whom the fans are doing their best to run out of town.
They have an on-paper starting goaltender locked up to term... who came in and played like a career backup.
They have leader types like Lucic and Backlund on their bottom six... eating up valuable contract space that could be used to get you that all important scoring right handed shot up front.
They annually spend to the cap, and players generally consider them a classy organization... which I think is the only positive out there for attracting players at the moment.



Yes, there are lots of reasons why Calgary is a great place, but that list is quite open to interpretation and I'm not sure the going sentiment is aligned with those comments.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by troutman

Two goals in limited action this year. Minus 9.

Yeah, but we've already seen with Hall that whatever was happening in Buffalo this season was a uniquely Buffalo problem.

No reason to think the performance this year is a trend setter for things going forward.

[Wolfman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7GgoZzRPQ4

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, but we've already seen with Hall that whatever was happening in Buffalo this season was a uniquely Buffalo problem.

No reason to think the performance this year is a trend setter for things going forward.

Buffalo is such a black hole it would seem, that if the Sabres would retain a few million, and it lessened the return for Eichel a fair amount, I would probably be fine of the Flames took Skinner back along with Jack.

He's still only 28 and is a very good skater still, with a lethal shot. He might rebound and be worth $6-7 million AAV with a change of scenery.

[dino7c]

2 goals in 21 games...but 18 points (almost ppg) on a disaster of a team while not healthy

Nathan MacKinnon had 53 points in 82 games in his 4th year...guys have bad years let alone a "bad" 21 games

Eichel for me is a top 10 player

[chummer]

6 to 1 odds, not bad-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1392549620107120643

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by chummer

6 to 1 odds, not bad-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1392549620107120643

Sabres fan on twitter:

Lafreniere, the next 3 firsts, Kappo, and Schneider

somebody is going to be disappointed with Monahan and a 1st

[Jordan!]

4/1 hmmm

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

It's not all there. If it were he would be have willed that team to a playoff birth a long time ago (or hell even playoff contention for that matter).

Come on, you don't actually believe this, do you? Even a young Mario Lemieux didn't make the playoffs until his team added Paul Coffey in his prime.

No is advocating the Flames trade their whole roster for Eichel, but we are saying that even if we gave up significant pieces, we'd be able to put around him the best roster he's ever played with.

Let's look at the past three years.

2017-18
With Rasmus Ristolainen as your best defenseman - a guy who might not be selected to play bottom pair on some teams, and Lehner having a down year, there's no way any player in the league, not Crosby or Bergeron, is taking that team to the playoffs. In fact, forget Eichel, look at ROR, who led that team in icetime.

21 5v5 points in 1172:58
37 on-ice GF 5v5
47 on-ice GA 5v5
49.64% xG%

versus the exact same player the next year on an actual TEAM:
43 5v5 points in 1190:43
61 on-ice GF 5v5
37 on-ice GA 5v5
55.30% xG%

It's almost as if playing with defensemen who can transition the puck, and wingers who can score the puck makes a difference.

2018-19
Now you've subtracted ROR and Lehner and added 18-year-old Dahlin.

2019-20
I agree, the 2019-20 Sabres probably should have been better than they were. But Kreuger was a disaster there and the player most affected by those systems was Rasmus Dahlin, who went from a legitimate top four NHL defenseman to looking like a complete bust.

2020-21
Dahlin continues to play like ####, Eichel has a broken rib in preseason and a herniated disc (which results in 2 goals in 22 games, although he still had 16 assists). The coach should have been canned far sooner. Eichel shuts it down. Coach finally gets canned and Dahlin suddenly starts looking like a star again under a non-Kreuger coach.

Honesetly, if the Sabres are smart, they figure out a way to stay the course because Dahlin and Eichel is a core you can build around.

Us vulture Flames fans are hoping the Sabres are about to do the same incompetent things they did in 2018 when they let go of ROR and Lehner.

Jack Eichel is an immensely talented hockey player. He's also very flawed in the sense that he only competes when he feels like it, and has a consistent tendency to stop playing throughout games. This guy coasts around more on a shift to shift basis than any other star player in the NHL.

I think you just described every star player in the league not named Crosby or MacKinnon.

It's also tough to really evaluate the guy's work ethic on a team that's out of the playoffs so early every year.

I do agree Eichel could probably stand to give 100% every shift, but you're painting him out to be some kind of lazy coaster. He's not. Even Drew Doughty is known to coast a lot of the time, and he's won two cups under Darryl.

As I stated earlier, I think he hasn't hit his ceiling yet. Buffalo has been a terrible environment for more than one reason.

[Monahammer]

Monahan+ Choice of Dube or Mangiapane+ Valimaki + 2021 1st. Could also add a Pelletier or Zary into the mix for a lesser prospect or something back from buffalo to balance contracts. That's a solid offer and I think competitive.

Monahan alone should have the value of a high 1st round pick + roster player. IMO Mangiapane and Dube should be worth a low 1st each. Valimaki was a recent enough 1st with good FEL numbers to maintain value, and the 1st is obvious. So, 4 1sts+ worth of equivalent value.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sabres fan on twitter:

Lafreniere, the next 3 firsts, Kappo, and Schneider

somebody is going to be disappointed with Monahan and a 1st

Okay well that is an insane proposal for the Rangers… I’d put it at about 0% chance they’d offer that.

Edit: I missed that you said it was a Sabre fan.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by troutman

Two goals in limited action this year. Minus 9.

Point per game on the worst team in the league but OK.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Come on, you don't actually believe this, do you? Even a young Mario Lemieux didn't make the playoffs until his team added Paul Coffey in his prime.

Yes, I do believe that. It's been six seasons now...

15/16 - 23rd in the NHL
16/17 - 26th in the NHL
17/18 - 31st in the NHL
18/19 - 27th in the NHL
19/20 - 25th in the NHL
20/21 - 31st in the NHL

Jack Eichel is a star in the NHL. I am not denying that. If he were as good as the hockey world makes him out to be however the Sabres would have shown at the very least some improvements over his six seasons.

Jack Eichel has a goals for percentage of 46% at five on five during his career. He has his flaws.

Gutting this franchise (Tkachuk, young roster player(s), multiple firsts, top prospects, etc..) for a player who has not shown the ability to consistently improve his current organization or teammates is an incredibly risky proposition (especially given his injury status).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sabres fan on twitter:

Lafreniere, the next 3 firsts, Kappo, and Schneider

somebody is going to be disappointed with Monahan and a 1st

Yeah, right.

People need to forget about Eichel's draft position or pedigree as an "almost generational talent". He hasn't demonstrated that yet and given his injury and desire to leave Buffalo, he isn't worth nearly as much as people think. In my opinion of course.

I put him in the Scheifele/Huberdeau/Aho/Zibanejad tier. Not the MacKinnon/Draisaitl/Matthews tier. And certainly nowhere near McDavid, regardless of the fact he was draft right after.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

It's not all there. If it were he would be have willed that team to a playoff birth a long time ago (or hell even playoff contention for that matter).

Jack Eichel is an immensely talented hockey player. He's also very flawed in the sense that he only competes when he feels like it, and has a consistent tendency to stop playing throughout games. This guy coasts around more on a shift to shift basis than any other star player in the NHL.

He in no way, shape, or form should be a captain of an NHL organization, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they have lacked an identify as a team since he was given the keys to the franchise.

He has franchise changing skills, but he certainly has not shown the ability to be a franchise altering contributor (atleast at this point).

McDavid has missed the playoffs 6 times...he isn't all there I guess

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's also tough to really evaluate the guy's work ethic on a team that's out of the playoffs so early every year.

I do agree Eichel could probably stand to give 100% every shift, but you're painting him out to be some kind of lazy coaster. He's not. Even Drew Doughty is known to coast a lot of the time, and he's won two cups under Darryl.

As I stated earlier, I think he hasn't hit his ceiling yet. Buffalo has been a terrible environment for more than one reason.

I am painting Eichel as an elite offensive talent that has yet to show the maturity or commitment to better his all around game and effort levels. I am not saying he can't, just that he hasn't to date.

In terms of purely his offensive tools he's a top five talent in the NHL.