[News] Eichel: Sabres wouldn't let me get surgery on herniated disk in neck

[dammage79]

To me, the Flames' foundation is crumbling an yall want to put a heavier roof on the house. Soon you'll just have a nice roof in a hole.

[bubbsy]

It's cute to ponder scenarios where a big fish like eichel lands in cgy.... But that's not how things work for the Calgary Flames.

The flames need to focus on drafting their centers. If they haven't figured that out based on the last 30 years, God help us all.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Buffalo can ask all they want, but those bolded players are already better than Eichel, so those teams would laugh hanging up. When you add in variance in contracts, it just makes things worse. Why give up better players for a guy with a bigger salary? Buffalo can hope all they want, but the reality is they have a problem because of Eichel's $10M contract.

Calgary is probably in a pretty good situation if they want to take a run at him, because they do have a young player that could fit in the structure being talked about, and could even out the salary issue. Tkachuk's QO puts him in the same range as Eichel, so Buffalo may not blink at that. With the extra million+, depending on the extension negotiated, they could then be adding pieces to the mix beyond just the primary. The thing is Buffalo has to be getting value back for the money they take on. The thing Buffalo doesn't want to take on is aging players with term, which is why Calgary might be attractive to them. I see two possible deals that could work.

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Monahan ($6.375) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $18.3M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Ristolainen ($5.4M) + Eakin ($2.25M) - Total salary = $17.6M

Or

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Lindholm ($4.85) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $16.8M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Reinhart ($5.2M) + Borgen (RFA, Est $1.5M) - Total salary = $16.7M

I think those deals could work and make some sense for both teams. The idea that Eichel, with his salary and his health issues, garnering a massive haul is unlikely. Deals have to make sense fiscally these days, and Eichel's $10M price tag is tough to swallow. If he was dominant like McDavid, then maybe. But he isn't. There's a lot of risk involved with taking Eichel on, and the NHL is turning into a league where risk aversion is a big things most teams consider.

Interesting, but these mammoth type of deals don't seem to happen all that often. I am trying to recall the last time a deal involved 3 or 4 pieces moving each way.

I think a far more likely scenario would be:

Lindholm + Hanifin + pick/prospect - Eichel.

Salaries match, nearly, and Sabres pick up some futures. Buffalo also gets two players on good value contracts with term. With a flat cap, that represents great value.

Or

Tkachuk + Mangiapane/Dube + pick/prospect - Eichel.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

Its been 30 years without a #1C and our franchise has absolutely nothing to show outside of a Cinderella run to the finals. I'm alright taking some chances and being a little reckless trying to acquire a guy of Eichel's calibre. The depth and talent needed to insulate Eichel is MUCH easier to come by than a guy like Eichel. We can fill those holes.

I don't think you have an idea what you're asking for?

So let's say we do make the deal you want and we move Tkachuk and then one of Monahan or Lindholm, Valimaki, one of Pelletier or Zary, and our 1st. We've carved out two top end players, and then three of our best prospects for that potential #1 center (who has yet to take his existing team anywhere other than the bottom of the standings). Great, you've traded for a player we have control over for the next five years. Now what?

Well, we have a pretty weak roster. We've moved two of our best players to get this one. We have a declining Backlund and Lucic as mainstays. On top of that we moved our best prospect on the blueline who was expected to pick up the slack from a retiring Giordano. We have a bunch of expiring UFAs and need to plug holes. We currently have next to nothing on the farm. Mackey is going to have to step in and fill the gap left by Valimaki's departure. After him? Bleak. Up front we're looking at Gawdin and Ruzicka. After that, bleak. What's worse, we moved at least one of the guys we hoped to take a spot, so we're down there too. Our top six is going to be comprised of Eichel, Gaudreau (until the end of next season?), Monahan or Lindholm, Dube, and Mangipane. So now what? We're going to be cash poor so bringing in free agents to supplement the roster will be no different than what we saw this year. So we turn to the farm.

The farm is a hot mess. Not much talent there and the talent that is there is mostly small or tiny. We're lacking at every position in the minors. We're really at the whim of player development for last year's draft and looking forward.

The development path for the average player is three to five years, depending on round drafted. Losing early picks mean you don't get the top end talent that matures quicker, and that development window extends out. So because we've carved out our top picks, we are dependent on players more like to take the longer path to get to the NHL. Because we've traded so many picks in the past, and have a weak system, we're looking toward future drafts to fill needed positions. That means we are five three to five years from those picks filtering in. Because of the weak system and lack of picks, the window to exploit Eichel is pretty much closed.

The "safe" approach has gotten us nowhere. The price for Eichel will be steep, but we won't have an AHL roster after the deal.

We won't have to worry about an AHL roster, we'll have an ECHL roster. Our minor league affiliate is one of the worst in the AHL. Our prospect depth is one of the worst in the league. That's what we would be relying to to backfill the roster until new talent can be drafted and develop. Not a pretty scenario when you drill down into it. Unless we can get Eichel for just roster players, the Flames should stay as far away from him as they can. He's a potential timebomb for this franchise.

[Flames_F.T.W]

You make valid points. But ownership won't allow the team to tank. I think going all in for a potential franchise C is worth the gamble. This team (specifically the core) needs to be gutted regardless. Why not gut it for a #1C and swing for the fences? The status quo and playing it safe hasn't worked.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

You make valid points. But ownership won't allow the team to tank. I think going all in for a potential franchise C is worth the gamble. This team (specifically the core) needs to be gutted regardless. Why not gut it for a #1C and swing for the fences? The status quo and playing it safe hasn't worked.

Absolutely. They absolutely should try to propose a deal to get it done, but if it doesn't what exactly the alternate course of action for the franchise? Eichel or tank?

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Absolutely. They absolutely should try to propose a deal to get it done, but if it doesn't what exactly the alternate course of action for the franchise? Eichel or tank?

I'd be fine trading everyone and rebuilding/tanking. Since it's highly unlikely ownership feels that way, I think swinging for the fences on Eichel would be the move... or maybe someone like Larkin could be had for less. We could certainly use his speed down the middle.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ya sounds like LA and NYR have a treasure trove of riches they can offer. Sigh.

The NY media seems to be out to lunch. They think they will get Eichel but Lafreniere, Kakko, and Fox are untouchable. One of those players has to be included in the deal.

[GioforPM]

The Flames need to get their plans in order quickly. They have to know if they are in or out on Eichel. If they wait until too close to draft day, too much can happen that’s bad if an Eichel deal falls through. Too late to effectively trade for picks, maybe too late to save value on Gaudreau, too late to go to a plan B if you can’t land Eichel.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ya sounds like LA and NYR have a treasure trove of riches they can offer. Sigh.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That is a bit different IMO.

Drury went from a cup winning and perennial cup contender, to Calgary who hadn't made the playoffs in 7 years, and looked to be nowhere near a contending or cap spending team at that time.

Plus IIRC correctly Drury was an RFA at the time, and the concern was he would hold out.

If Drury knows that the Flames would be in the cup finals 12 months later, and that the team would be a cap team post lockout then maybe he doesn't ask to be traded.

It was well known before the trade happened that Drury has zero interest in playing in Canada. He made that very clear. That was the bonehead move.

[Vinny01]

Is there an example of a team that had their 5 of their top 6 forwards 23-27 years old, with 2 of their top 4 D under 25, and had a high end goalie locked up long term that pivoted and tore it all down and went the tank route?

I just feel like this organization still feels like they have some great pieces and will look to retool the roster. I do wonder if Treliving is still the GM is if he decides to force a deal this summer? If he is going to do that then I think overpaying for Eichel is the move that makes the most sense if they want to try and get that elite talent and win right away.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Flames need to get their plans in order quickly. They have to know if they are in or out on Eichel. If they wait until too close to draft day, too much can happen that’s bad if an Eichel deal falls through. Too late to effectively trade for picks, maybe too late to save value on Gaudreau, too late to go to a plan B if you can’t land Eichel.

Definitely requires multiple irons in the fire and there hopefully are Plans A, B, C etc but none of those plans should be returning with the same core with slight changes via free agency.

[Harry Lime]

The speculation around the league is generated by the likelihood that an established high end player would not be going back the other way. Thus the player-prospect-pick. People here are really downplaying the value of Tkachuk.

It might not be a Hall "one for one" deal, but it would be closer than people think.

Tkachuk + Valimaki probably gets it done, because actual GMs HATE magic beans.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

You make valid points. But ownership won't allow the team to tank. I think going all in for a potential franchise C is worth the gamble. This team (specifically the core) needs to be gutted regardless. Why not gut it for a #1C and swing for the fences? The status quo and playing it safe hasn't worked.

That's not what is being proposed by many. Most proposals have us sending one or two roster players and mostly futures. We can't afford to lose futures. That is the challenge and that is the pitfall here. The owners don't have much control over this. Their only control is to kill any deal that puts the larger future of the team at risk, but that would require them to second guess the GM and make a hockey related decision, which they have not done in the past. If they truly have entrusted the control over the enterprise to the GM, they will only be concerned about signing checks.

What happens if this swing for the fences turns into an infield fly and decimates the system? Will you still be around to cheer on the league's punching bag for the next five to 10 years? I'm talking about a team worse than the Young Gun days.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's not what is being proposed by many. Most proposals have us sending one or two roster players and mostly futures. We can't afford to lose futures. That is the challenge and that is the pitfall here. The owners don't have much control over this. Their only control is to kill any deal that puts the larger future of the team at risk, but that would require them to second guess the GM and make a hockey related decision, which they have not done in the past. If they truly have entrusted the control over the enterprise to the GM, they will only be concerned about signing checks.

What happens if this swing for the fences turns into an infield fly and decimates the system? Will you still be around to cheer on the league's punching bag for the next five to 10 years? I'm talking about a team worse than the Young Gun days.

I'm 36 and have been a Flames fan since '89... I've never felt more apathy for this team than I have this season (apathy started for the first time following Colorado series). I honestly don't care what they do as long as they take a sledgehammer to the core. Rebuild or break the bank for Eichel. It can't get any worse for me at this point.

[Ped]

This whole Rangers thing is absolutely fascinating. They have a number one elite center in Zibanejad, and another top 6 in Strome. They have Panarin and Buchnevich, and then young guys like Kakko, Lafreniere, and Kravtsov.


Buchnevich is RFA this summer and looking at a big payday. Kreider, and Panarin and Trouba all make big money already. Both Strome and Zibanejad are UFA after next season.


Now, you could trade Strome - a productive center for under 5 million for one more year - if you want Eichel. But there seem to be segments of the New York media saying don't go for Eichel, just resign Zibanejad, who is better than Eichel in their opinion, plus the health risk with Eichel.


But Zibanejad's new deal, if he keeps up his scoring next season, will be pretty close to Eichel's. Eichel is 5 years young, so while Zibanejad may or may not be better now, who will be better in 2-3 years? Do you pay Zibanejad based on what he did and is doing, or do you go for Eichel who would probably be the better investment, assuming Zibanejad wants both money and term.


Now of course, if they trade for Eichel, they're losing one of Kakko or Lafreniere at the very least. Probably Strome too, which is okay, if Buffalo needs a center back.

[The Yen Man]

I don't understand what riches the Rangers potentially have for this trade that makes any sense. If you are Buffalo, you aren't trading Eichel for anyone on the Rangers other than Lafreniere or Fox. Zibanejad has one more year before he's UFA, but I'm guessing it won't be hard to get him to sign an extension with the Rangers. So then, they already have that elite 1st line centre. Why would they give up a potential top line winger for something they already have? Are they going to give up Fox instead? That makes even less sense.

Sorry, but Kakko isn't going to do it. If it was a pick of either Kakko or Matthew Tkatchuk, I know who I'd choose.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by NewFan

Let's imagine that we won this year's 1st overall pick. Will you trade that for Eichel? Otherwise i think we don't have enougth asset to trade for him as our offer must be higher than LAK or NYR.

Of course. First overall in a year where half the prospects didn’t play a game, or a 0.94 PPG C who’s going to be 25 when the next season starts.

[FlamesAddiction]

All the talk about the owners or Sutter "not letting a tank happen" is irrelevant. Tanks happen despite the best efforts sometimes.

• Crappy prospect pool
• Dead cap space
• Flat cap
• Players with their best years behind them

It will take miracle to not tank and getting Eichel doesn't change that. The analogy of fixing the roof while the foundation is crumbling is bang on. The longer they put off a rebuild, the more painful it will be.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The speculation around the league is generated by the likelihood that an established high end player would not be going back the other way. Thus the player-prospect-pick. People here are really downplaying the value of Tkachuk.

It might not be a Hall "one for one" deal, but it would be closer than people think.

Tkachuk + Valimaki probably gets it done, because actual GMs HATE magic beans.

If all it takes is Tkachuk + Vali + maybe one or two other things, not acquiring Jack Eichel is goddamn inexcusable.