Real estate in Calgary - another bubble?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

When you guys use the term "condo" what exactly does that refer too? Is it only called a condo if it has condo fees, or what defines something as being a condo? I just recently bought a townhouse, (no condo fees) I assume this would be classed as something else?

This can depend.

Condo vs freehold is what you're referring to. This is a way of classifying property ownership.

Freehold townhouse means there is no common property and no condo corp. This is what you are describing. These are gaining popularity. Your house is connected to another house but there is a defined line of ownership between the adjoining properties. If your roof gets hail damage, you will each file your own claims for repairs.

Most older townhouse/row houses/semi detached, have a condo corp. Usually they have lower fees than apartment condos since there is no interior common space (hallways, elevators, parking garages etc).

Condos are one of those things that people use as a general term but often not in the correct technical way. You can have single family home condos, apartment condos or row housing condos (townhouse). Generally when John Q Public says "condo" they mean an apartment condo.

In condos it does not work this way. For condos, everything inside the walls is essentially yours and everything outside belongs to the condo corp. You do not own the land on which your condo is situated. If your condo roof gets hail damage, the condo corp files a claim on behalf of all unit owners. You only have content and liability for your unit.

A duplex is a bit different in that it is a style of home, but are pretty much always freehold. A duplex just means a two unit home that has separate heat/furnace/plumbing and separate entrances. They also have separate unit #s for civic address purposes.

[troutman]

We have here what are called Bare Land condos (which come with RPRs):

https://www.crebnow.com/the-re-emergence-of-bare-land/

“The term ‘bare land’ can be a bit of a misnomer,” said Debra A. Bunston, senior industry advisor with the Alberta Real Estate Association, which represents 10 regional real estate boards and more than 10,000 real estate professionals in the province.

“They typically include homes and landscaping or other structures. They can be residential condos, RV pads, or any other type of recreational or commercial condo.”

In a conventional condo, the homeowner owns what’s within the four walls, floor and ceiling. Bare land condo boundaries, meanwhile, are marked at the edges of the plot of land, not by the walls, floor or ceiling of the living space.

“In that way, a bare land unit resembles a single-family building lot – (the) house, deck, lawns, walkways and landscaping are all inside the unit boundaries,” said Bunston, noting everything beyond – such as facilities, greenspaces and roadways – is within the purview of the condo corporation.

Bare land condos often appeal to the mature buyer who wants to spend their free time doing things other than yard work.

“It’s very similar to living in a condo building, but it looks like a traditional neighbourhood and you’re in a single-family home,” he said. “The reality is now your neighbours and you have a say in what goes on each other’s property.”

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Ha! I had originally mentioned bare land condo (strata in BC) but figured that was too much and deleted it. Also called vacant land condo in ON.

These are common in gated communities where older people live.

Sometimes you are responsible for your own grass cutting/snow shovelling, sometimes it is included, depends on how the strata (condo corp) is set up.

It is like the ultimate version of an HOA.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

When you guys use the term "condo" what exactly does that refer too? Is it only called a condo if it has condo fees, or what defines something as being a condo? I just recently bought a townhouse, (no condo fees) I assume this would be classed as something else?

Typically I find when people use the word 'condo' it's in reference to an apartment style condo.

People generally say "townhouse" when talking about those, even though a townhouse is technically under a condo structure. Probably because of the negative associations to to the word 'condo'.

[flamesfan1297]

That's all great information guys! That clears it up, so I guess I didn't technically buy a townhouse, more of a freehold townhouse. The not having too pay condo fees was what attracted me too it, and having access too it from the outside instead of a common area. A small yard and garage was also nice.

I was getting worried when I was reading about the poor resale of condos on here, so glad that's cleared up for me. Do you guys figure the freehold townhouse market like I have will continue too become more in demand then?

[I-Hate-Hulse]

It depends....demand is going to be driven by a lot of the usual factors - location, aesthetics, supply, condo fees, etc.

The lack of condo fees is going to be great in the early years of your condo and demand / interest for this no fee situation will increase (as it did for you). However, as time goes on - some of the things that would work great if done in an organized fashion - can get shoddy if one side decides to replace the roof, and the other side doesn't. Or if one unit wants a blue color scheme and the other side wants brown, like in this example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1289...7i13312!8i6656

(for the record I think this example looks OK, but I've seen examples that were just plain terrible)

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

It depends....demand is going to be driven by a lot of the usual factors - location, aesthetics, supply, condo fees, etc.

The lack of condo fees is going to be great in the early years of your condo and demand / interest for this no fee situation will increase (as it did for you). However, as time goes on - some of the things that would work great if done in an organized fashion - can get shoddy if one side decides to replace the roof, and the other side doesn't. Or if one unit wants a blue color scheme and the other side wants brown, like in this example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1289...7i13312!8i6656

(for the record I think this example looks OK, but I've seen examples that were just plain terrible)

The other thing to consider is budgeting. The example above looks not bad because at least both roofs got done.

But condo fees force you to budget for major repairs, as they aren't optional and the reserve fund gets funded to pay them. The risk is that in 30 years your neighbour's roof, windows, and Siding are all still original and look terrible because they didn't budget for replacement.

Not an issue in the short term when everything is new, but something to keep under consideration. (And probably a good idea to keep your own savings for eventual larger repairs)

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

It depends....demand is going to be driven by a lot of the usual factors - location, aesthetics, supply, condo fees, etc.

The lack of condo fees is going to be great in the early years of your condo and demand / interest for this no fee situation will increase (as it did for you). However, as time goes on - some of the things that would work great if done in an organized fashion - can get shoddy if one side decides to replace the roof, and the other side doesn't. Or if one unit wants a blue color scheme and the other side wants brown, like in this example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1289...7i13312!8i6656

(for the record I think this example looks OK, but I've seen examples that were just plain terrible)

Thanks, I hadn't considered years from now how it would look as people start updating and changing their houses. I don't think this will be an issue for me though, as I plan too live in it for a year and then sell it and buy a detached place next spring. So I'm hoping the price and demand for freehold townhouses goes up a bit or atleast stays steady over the next year.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ha! I had originally mentioned bare land condo (strata in BC) but figured that was too much and deleted it. Also called vacant land condo in ON.

These are common in gated communities where older people live.

Sometimes you are responsible for your own grass cutting/snow shovelling, sometimes it is included, depends on how the strata (condo corp) is set up.

It is like the ultimate version of an HOA.

Much rarer, we also are starting to see Co-Housing in Calgary. Ex.

https://prairieskycohousing.wordpres...out-cohousing/

Cohousing emphasizes a supportive, inter-generational community, common facilities, and participation by all members. Its setting can be urban, suburban, or rural. It can involve building houses or renovating existing structures. The design can take a variety of forms, but the intention is to increase social interaction, conversation, and community relationships.

Cohousing projects typically minimize the size of individual units, but maximize shared facilities, which become an extension to everyone’s living space. Central to this is the common house – the community hang-out – which is the site for community dinners, house concerts, parties, interest groups and movies. Most cohousing groups are committed to environmentally friendly construction and sustainable living.

Cohousing recognizes that food and bonds of community go together. Most cohousing communities have weekly “common meals”. Teams of 5 or 6 residents take turns cooking dinner for the rest of the community, and the cost of groceries is shared among those attending the meal. At Prairie Sky, we have common meals once weekly and pot-luck dinners once or twice monthly. Cook teams typically cook twice every 5 or 6 weeks.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...ticle36335850/

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

Thanks, I hadn't considered years from now how it would look as people start updating and changing their houses. I don't think this will be an issue for me though, as I plan too live in it for a year and then sell it and buy a detached place next spring. So I'm hoping the price and demand for freehold townhouses goes up a bit or atleast stays steady over the next year.

Even if it increases a bit, that will likely get eaten up by realtor fees, no?

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Even if it increases a bit, that will likely get eaten up by realtor fees, no?

Yes it will, I'd may have too live in it for longer than a year too make up for that, which I'm fine with. I was just tired of paying rent and wanted too own something of my own

[troutman]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Even if it increases a bit, that will likely get eaten up by realtor fees, no?

3% on price above $100K.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by troutman

3% on price above $100K.

True, but he will need to pay the commission on the first hundred grand when he sells also. A 250k place needs to go up by nearly $12k to cover real estate commissions (at 7/3), not including other costs of sale. Mortgage paydown will help will that also.

[Hockeyguy15]

Could be some penalties depending on his mortgage terms as well.

[Calgary14]

1% interest rates also help too

[Cappy]

Whats the best way to find sale price of recently listed properties?

[The Yen Man]

Saw this article the other day.

https://calgaryherald.com/life/homes...g-demand-surge

So it sounds like it's really starter homes and townhouses that are the ones seeing the most gains, and even then, it's still not as high as 2015 prices. Which kinda makes sense. People who maybe were normally renting or living in a condo make the jump to a starter home to take advantage of low interest rates. Plus, WFH probably made them realize they wanted more space.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

1% interest rates also help too

Yeah, way more mortgage paydown with rates that low.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Saw this article the other day.

https://calgaryherald.com/life/homes...g-demand-surge

So it sounds like it's really starter homes and townhouses that are the ones seeing the most gains, and even then, it's still not as high as 2015 prices. Which kinda makes sense. People who maybe were normally renting or living in a condo make the jump to a starter home to take advantage of low interest rates. Plus, WFH probably made them realize they wanted more space.

That's the really depressing thing - you need to go back a long time to start realizing gains, even at today's supposedly 'red-hot' market prices. The higher the price point, the further back you need to go.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Whats the best way to find sale price of recently listed properties?

I'm not sure if this is the best way, but you can look up land titles here:
https://alta.registries.gov.ab.ca/spinii/logon.aspx


They are almost a month behind processing. Login as guest, then click search on the top. Then "search by street address" works the quickest. This gets you close, then use the i icon in a circle with the arrow on the bottom toolbar to get the pop up, then click the tiny icon in the view column to see the land title. Super easy!