Come on photon, that's quite the display of arrogance. You don't conclude "anything," "without proof," but have that audacity to dismiss the experience of the individuals involved in the events AND the evidence submitted in support of them, because you don't like their evidence.
I don't dismiss their experiences, I've had similar experiences. I dismiss their claims that it's evidence of phenomenon beyond our knowledge or capability.
The default state of ALL claims is false until they've been demonstrated otherwise. That's how science works. No one gets special treatment because they're an 'expert'.
I'm not saying to not investigate further, I've said many times that there needs to be more data.
The rest of your post about groups and motivations, your attacks against people, are ultimately irrelevant, the only thing that matters is what can be demonstrated.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
I don’t have much of a horse in this race, but I try to digest as much information as I can and I really enjoy following along.
Gone down quite few rabbit holes on Reddit over the course of the past couple years and it’s a pretty fun distraction.
For anyone just getting interested in the topic, or for anyone who wants to filter through a lot of the BS out there (and there is lots) I would recommend checking out the documentary “The Phenomenon”.
It brings some credibility in to the fold.
The Ariel school sighting (which this touches on) is one of the most compelling accounts of UAP/UFO encounters.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
I've been reading and studying up on the UFO phenomina for over 40 years, and yeah i'm effing old. All the anecdotal evidence has me convinced that UFO's do exist and that we are being visited by beings from another world.
I often think of Roswell and all the different explanations over the years. Or the sightings that occur over military bases such as (Rendlesham) and numerous nuclear sites. Then there's Area 51 and all the stories of crashed alien craft and the technology from it being used in the world today.
You then have credible witnesses over the years that testify to what they saw. Doesn't mean it's automaticly a UFO but it gives the sigthing some cedibility.
I've watched many documentaries over the years and read countless books on the subject. To be clear none of them are the proof we are looking for but they do give a person pause for thought.
It would be awesome if we could find the truth but I doubt it ever comes out in my lifetime.
Amateur at best, I took 1 semester of engineering courses in university before switching, and maintain only a casual interest and understanding of advanced physics.
Even with amateur level understanding this guy sounds like a quack.
Or he sounds like a guy dumbing it down to his audience? Nothing worse that giving an explanation of something and then having to explain it a second time because you've just gone over the head of your audience. I'm continually reminded to dumb down my presentations and make them accessible to the majority of the audience who has no understanding of the technical details in depth. I'm sure after years of these type of interviews he knows to make it accessible. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, because the guys who have one semester in your field of study are going to claim you're fraud because you didn't talk over their heads.
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Nothing West says requires him to be a fighter pilot. Did you watch the video?
Of course there is something to respond to. Fravor called West stupid and he felt a need to show that he knows what he's talking about. West could be wrong, but he's just putting out a hypothesis, and he'd be happy to be proven so if the evidence existed.
I'm not. Unidentified Flying Objects could be anything, including a balloon. Fravor is conflating his training to identify a known aircraft with an ability to identify an unknown airborne object. Perspective, parallax, and any other optical illusion can make you unable to understand what you're seeing.
His very first rebuttal is questioning his training as an "observer", something which he has no knowledge of obviously. 17 years flying and training and you want to question his ability to determine size when he clearly explains how he does it? I stopped at that point, I'm all for questioning facts but find some real holes to go after.
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I thought Mick West raised some pretty reasonable questions, but I don't think he says anything that "debunks" anything. But some of the questions and theories he brings up are legitimate alternate things to think about.
I hate his style though. He presents his opinions as fact and comes across as a know it all.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
His very first rebuttal is questioning his training as an "observer", something which he has no knowledge of obviously. 17 years flying and training and you want to question his ability to determine size when he clearly explains how he does it? I stopped at that point, I'm all for questioning facts but find some real holes to go after.
He clearly explained nothing except his ability to identify an object he already has knowledge of. Show me where he mentioned gauging the size and speed of an unknown object.
He clearly explained nothing except his ability to identify an object he already has knowledge of. Show me where he mentioned gauging the size and speed of an unknown object.
Like, the whole essence of fighter pilot training is identifying objects, their size, their trajectory, their speed, their altitude, and intercepting them. I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world better at that than Fravor at the time. How is that not obvious????
Like, the whole essence of fighter pilot training is identifying objects, their size, their trajectory, their speed, their altitude, and intercepting them. I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world better at that than Fravor at the time. How is that not obvious????
If it's so obvious it's should easily be provable. C'mon, counselor.
I'm like, halfway through this Rogan Lazar thing, and I gotta say, it's pretty unconvincing. It doesn't help that super slick sales guy slides in all the time to grease it up.
A big standout was his gravitational waves claim, which is just baffling. He's claiming he predicted gravity as a wave, but that's not even true now. Gravitational waves are real, and predicted by Einstein, so I'm not sure what he is laying claim to. The base gravitational force still has no known source, unlike every other force. So claiming gravity is a wave(not a particle) is quizzical. It's almost like he doesn't know what he's talking about...
