[News] Bob Hartley wins the Gagarin Cup (KHL)

[McG]

Bob Hartley’s 4th line v Vancouver was awesome.

[monkeyman]

Those Hartley coached Flames were some of the most fun/exciting games to watch as a fan, regardless of the outcome.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Those Hartley coached Flames were some of the most fun/exciting games to watch as a fan, regardless of the outcome.

Even though those were our worst rosters since young guns, nothing in my recollection of Hartley's era was the word boring.

They were boring at many points under the coaches that followed him.

Good coach. Probably not given enough credit because of his "rough" personality in the room.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Most likely better than with Gulutzan, Ward or even Peters. As much as there are some that will stand by Hartley's removal for whatever reason -- the guy knows how to win. Removing him without an actual better option in line might have been Treliving's worst mistake as a GM. Only took until this season to find a real head coach.

Not only Treliving fired Hartley without a better option in mind. Treliving was actually bragging to the media about firing Hartley without having another coach in his mind - let alone lined up and ready to come in. That's the way to handle things, according to Tre

"Today's decision isn't about anyone waiting on the on-deck circle," said Treliving. "Today we start the process of finding the next coach. We made this decision today with nobody else in mind"

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1020246

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

However, Gaudreau? The young guys liked him, including Gaudreau who went to his camp.

There's a pretty massive difference between going to camp for a week to teach kids with Hartley and having Hartley as your day to day boss for years.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hartley is the only coach I know of ever to be included in a NTC.

Does it reflect on Hartley? Or does it reflect on whoever included him in a NTC? His commitment to do whatever it takes to win?

[DomeFoam]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Not only Treliving fired Hartley without a better option in mind. Treliving was actually bragging to the media about firing Hartley without having another coach in his mind - let alone lined up and ready to come in. That's the way to handle things, according to Tre

"Today's decision isn't about anyone waiting on the on-deck circle," said Treliving. "Today we start the process of finding the next coach. We made this decision today with nobody else in mind"

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1020246

Hartley took the weak flames rosters of 2015 as far as he could according to Treliving *hires 4 more coaches in the preceeding years who don't take their much better rosters as far as Hartley did*

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Does it reflect on Hartley? Or does it reflect on whoever included him in a NTC? His commitment to do whatever it takes to win?

There was more than one player apparently. So probably the former. Hartley had one good season and three bad ones, plus what - three more PO wins over 4 years than a half season coach.

[Coach]

I was in the building for the come-back from down 3-0 to eliminate the Canucks at home. I thank Bob for that memory.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Itse

There's a pretty massive difference between going to camp for a week to teach kids with Hartley and having Hartley as your day to day boss for years.

Obviously there is. Should go without saying. However, if you hate someone, why would you choose to speak an entire week with that individual in the off-season when you don't have to? Gaudreau could have easily made an excuse and found another camp to volunteer at.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There was more than one player apparently. So probably the former. Hartley had one good season and three bad ones, plus what - three more PO wins over 4 years than a half season coach.

Why do people even try to make the argument about ‘good seasons’?

That roster was blown up, gutted, and the team was absolutely not supposed to make the playoffs when they won a round. Tre was in ‘seeing what he had’ mode, likely trying to figure out who was ‘his guy’ when Hartley pulled out a Jack Adams season.

We also have many times run through the season by season recap of his tenure including the last year. Remember the 3 headed goalie monster, hurt Brodie, shaky first 20 Hamilton, historically bad Hiller, the Wideman incident leading to a step change up in penalties against the team, the Ramo injury?

Quite a bit of adversity for a young team

Tre could have made any number of rationalizations but couldn’t fire him soon enough

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There was more than one player apparently. So probably the former. Hartley had one good season and three bad ones, plus what - three more PO wins over 4 years than a half season coach.

His "bad" seasons were pretty much what anyone should have expected for a rebuilding team. He was able to get individual players to take the next step regardless of the overall results.

I also don't think him not get another NHL job is a sign of anything. It was rumoured when Feaster hired him that he didn't really want to leave Switzerland to begin with and prefers Europe to North America. There were also rumours that Ottawa tried to lure him over before the Flames hired him and he turned them down. I would not be surprised if he and his family stay in Europe even after he retires.

I don't think we can assume to know every time a coach is approached by an NHL team. Smart teams do their best to keep stuff under wraps.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why do people even try to make the argument about ‘good seasons’?

That roster was blown up, gutted, and the team was absolutely not supposed to make the playoffs when they won a round. Tre was in ‘seeing what he had’ mode, likely trying to figure out who was ‘his guy’ when Hartley pulled out a Jack Adams season.

We also have many times run through the season by season recap of his tenure including the last year. Remember the 3 headed goalie monster, hurt Brodie, shaky first 20 Hamilton, historically bad Hiller, the Wideman incident leading to a step change up in penalties against the team, the Ramo injury?

Quite a bit of adversity for a young team

Tre could have made any number of rationalizations but couldn’t fire him soon enough

They hadn't been blown up when he started, he had a decent team that year.
But, just like players, it's always excuses - every team has issues from year to year. Shouldn't Hartley have fixed shaky Hamilton, bad Hiller, etc? I'm sure Ward can point to a bunch of stuff this year as excuses for his record.

I'm just saying that people sure are getting a lot of mileage from 2 wins against Vancouver (compared to Ward being seconds away from a stranglehold in round one and then getting beaten by the eventual SC finalist).

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They hadn't been blown up when he started, he had a decent team that year.
But, just like players, it's always excuses - every team has issues from year to year. Shouldn't Hartley have fixed shaky Hamilton, bad Hiller, etc? I'm sure Ward can point to a bunch of stuff this year as excuses for his record.

I'm just saying that people sure are getting a lot of mileage from 2 wins against Vancouver (compared to Ward being seconds away from a stranglehold in round one and then getting beaten by the eventual SC finalist).

People like it when their team wins actual playoff round wins, weird. They also give credit to people who actually win things like championships and Jack Adams trophies, even weirder. It's like everyone else is living in bizarro world and you see through all those things super clearly. Glad you are here as a voice of reason telling that good results aren't results, and bad results are actually pretty good.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Igottago

People like it when their team wins actual playoff round wins, weird. They also give credit to people who actually win things like championships and Jack Adams trophies, even weirder. It's like everyone else is living in bizarro world and you see through all those things super clearly. Glad you are here as a voice of reason telling that good results aren't results, and bad results are actually pretty good.

LOL. Snipe all you want. The job market speaks for itself with old Bob.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They hadn't been blown up when he started, he had a decent team that year.

I don't know about that. He had a roster full of players past their prime. Joey MacDonald was statistically our best goalies that season and Lee Stempniak was tied for first in team scoring. When your team is relying on Joey MacDonald and Stempniak to be your key players, that isn't really a great team.

If you're just looking at names (Iginla - traded after ~30 games, Kiprusoff, Tanguay, Cammaleri, Bouwmeester - traded after ~30 games), it looks like a good roster. But when you look at where those players were in their careers at the time, it's not that great.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Those Hartley coached Flames were some of the most fun/exciting games to watch as a fan, regardless of the outcome.

I agree. Compare that team, where being down 2 goals late in the period felt like you always had a chance to come back, versus now, when the season is on the line down by one and the team collectively ####s their pants and simultaneously all fall to the ice.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Those Hartley coached Flames were some of the most fun/exciting games to watch as a fan, regardless of the outcome.

I strongly disagree. Watching your team winning is exciting and fun. Watching your team play high-scoring lots-of-chances games and still losing - is not fun at all. Save for a few juicy moments (e.g. the Tortorella hallway incident), watching Hartley's Flames was disheartening for the most part. Plus, he is a bit of d... bag, as confirmed by quite a few NHL'ers publicly.

Watching Flames win and go to the Cup final was fun. Watching this team win and go to finish first in conference under Peters was fun. Hartley - meh.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't know about that. He had a roster full of players past their prime. Joey MacDonald was statistically our best goalies that season and Lee Stempniak was tied for first in team scoring. When your team is relying on Joey MacDonald and Stempniak to be your key players, that isn't really a great team.

If you're just looking at names (Iginla - traded after ~30 games, Kiprusoff, Tanguay, Cammaleri, Bouwmeester - traded after ~30 games), it looks like a good roster. But when you look at where those players were in their careers at the time, it's not that great.

Yeah, this ‘good team’ was coming off the back 9 into the clubhouse of the country club, and hadn’t made the playoffs three years running


Hartley just won yet another championship, we are at the balloon party, and the porcupine just can’t help himself

[topfiverecords]

This Wednesday's 31 Thoughts podcast was a full discussion with Hartley if anyone wanted to listen.