It's all the Goalie's Fault!

[Geeoff]

I think the 11-11-2 record under Ward is flattering compared to how the team was playing and Markstrom did actually steal some of those games.


The record under Sutter is closer to what the Flames are at this point.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Markstrom was fantastic at the beginning of the season, the team's MVP. He was pretty bad after he came back from his injury. He's been ok lately. Too bad we couldn't see an injury-free Markstrom this season, before he got hurt he was dialed in.

I expect a bounce-back season next year from him. I think he's closer to the goalie we saw at the beginning of the season versus the latter part. I'm not concerned about him at all.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The Sutter thing is a whole other conversation.

In Calgary he had Iggy as elite forward, getting 70 points. In LA he had Kopitar, getting 70 points. The season he left, they were both over 90

His goalies? Kipper had 1.79 / .933 and 2.07 / .923, and as I mentioned, Quick was under 2.30 5 years out of 6.

Low event hockey

I have no doubt Markstrom will be better, especially under Sutter. See the stats I just posted above.

My doubt is whether he is above average, and that $6 million is an appropriate amount to spend on a goalie

We love to point at Johnny’s 99 point season as an outlier. Why is it unfathomable that a career statistically average goalie with one good year is actually… average?

Why is his one career year the truth?

Average goalie, maybe overpaid. The risk I see is that he is locked in for 6 years, and paid. Talbot is locked in to Minny for three years at barely over half the cost. Brodie walked while Tre was prioritizing Markstrom. When you overpay one guy, you also can create losses elsewhere

Like I said, it’s the blocking goalie / rebound control issue that concerns me

I hope he is Vezina caliber but year 1 of 6 he did not perform to the level of his contract

[dino7c]

I don't agree with your 1 year narrative. Terrible defensive rebuilding team and was over .910 5 years straight. Team MVP 2 years in a row.

Do you think Demko is a good goalie? Because he had a .905 with them last year and a .911 this year.

And Brodie? he was going to TO no matter what come on now he used the Flames for leverage and its kinda ridiculous to bring him into the convo even

Talbot also had a .733 in an elimination game after his team went up 3-0, that kinda sealed things for him in Calgary like it or not

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ So Markstrom is having a good year? Better than Talbot and Smith? If facts aren’t of interest, this conversation is over.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ So Markstrom is having a good year? Better than Talbot and Smith? If facts aren’t of interest, this conversation is over.

Who said that? I said Markstom is having an off year already multiple times. I feel he will bounce back and be the better goalie moving forward.

39 year old Smith has a .925 speaking of one offs

Disagree if you wish, I'm pretty confident Markstom has the best numbers of the 3 in the next few years...Smith will probably be retired after next season.


If you want to compare Talbot/Smiths best season in years with Markstrom's worst to prove your point go for it.

Markstom could win the Vezina next season you will say it's all Sutter anyway so this is pointless.

[DeluxeMoustache]

He is a top paid goalie. I said year 1 of 6 he didn’t perform to the level of his contract. You disagreed.

Yeah, no ####, he will be playing after Mike Smith retires. And will be making $6 M long term, when no one is on the hook for Mike Smith

As for cherry picking seasons, Markstrom has exceeded Talbots career average save % once (except for one 7 game season 9 years ago)

How about if he actually does something before we anoint him king of whatever it is you like

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

He is a top paid goalie. I said year 1 of 6 he didn’t perform to the level of his contract. You disagreed.

Yeah, no ####, he will be playing after Mike Smith retires. And will be making $6 M long term, when no one is on the hook for Mike Smith

Where? I literally said he had an off year but I think he will bounce back...multiple times

BOUNCE BACK means he wasn't up to snuff


BOUNCE BACK

[Erick Estrada]

The entire team has been crap. I expect a lot of these players to be better next season and that includes Markstrom. That said he has been thoroughly mediocre since his early season injury. I don't care what the stats say as he's letting in a soft goal nearly every night and it's not really acceptable for a goaltender being paid the amount he's being paid and as said Sutter has pretty well dialed things back to the point where he's not under siege like he was when Ward was coaching.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Where? I literally said he had an off year but I think he will bounce back...multiple times

BOUNCE BACK means he wasn't up to snuff


BOUNCE BACK

I am not sure what you are arguing here/ the point you are trying to make

Anyone "might' back bounce next year and anyone can have that opinion on any player.

And any players may regress or improve.

However, the FACT (Since you link Caps!) is that Tre bet on using his cap room on a #1 goalie who did not play like a #1 goalie this year.

We all knew the Flames wouldn't be a high octane offense (I don't think anyone thought they would be this bad) - This is why we got a defensive D and a superstar (by contract) goalie

Just like our 'stars' on forward, our star goalie has performed below what he was brought in to do.

If anyone thinks Markstrum was the problem this year, they are crazy, but he sure as F wasn't the solution.

We can hope and have opinions all we want that he could bounce back, but right now we have historical performance and this years performance to go on.

It is leaning towards a miss for Tre again after year 1

[N-E-B]

Markstrom has allowed 2 or fewer goals in 9 of his last 11 games. Anyone that says he isn’t doing is job probably isn’t paying attention to the team anymore (which is fair).

He had a stretch in the middle of the season where he was below average, but at no point was he terrible. The team in front of him was giving up too many high danger chances and he wasn’t bailing them out.

I refuse to pin this season on goaltending. Markstrom has done his job.

It’s hard to be the best goalie on the ice when the team in front of you only gives you 1 or 2 goals to work with.

[GioforPM]

I think, to assess what kind of goalie Markstrom actually is going forward, you have to ignore some games where he was clearly playing hurt.

[Strange Brew]

Put Markstrom in a very large group of players that haven't lived up to their contracts. Pretty much every single player on the team except for Lindholm, Tanev and Mangiapane.

So which of these underperforming players will bounce back and which are simply not going to be able to play up to their contract?

The lack of upside on the roster is a big concern.

[NewFan]

It must be harder to play behind a team that if you let a goal it may be loss the game. If this team constantly scored first or score 3 or more often G will have less stress during the game.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The Sutter thing is a whole other conversation.

In Calgary he had Iggy as elite forward, getting 70 points. In LA he had Kopitar, getting 70 points. The season he left, they were both over 90

His goalies? Kipper had 1.79 / .933 and 2.07 / .923, and as I mentioned, Quick was under 2.30 5 years out of 6.

Low event hockey

I have no doubt Markstrom will be better, especially under Sutter. See the stats I just posted above.

My doubt is whether he is above average, and that $6 million is an appropriate amount to spend on a goalie

We love to point at Johnny’s 99 point season as an outlier. Why is it unfathomable that a career statistically average goalie with one good year is actually… average?

Why is his one career year the truth?

Average goalie, maybe overpaid. The risk I see is that he is locked in for 6 years, and paid. Talbot is locked in to Minny for three years at barely over half the cost. Brodie walked while Tre was prioritizing Markstrom. When you overpay one guy, you also can create losses elsewhere

Like I said, it’s the blocking goalie / rebound control issue that concerns me

I hope he is Vezina caliber but year 1 of 6 he did not perform to the level of his contract

Markstrom has certainly underperformed his contract, but at this point is the contract really that big a deal? The one good thing about the Flames’ lack of elite talent is they don’t really have anyone that needs to be paid. I don’t anticipate them having cap issues any time soon.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think, to assess what kind of goalie Markstrom actually is going forward, you have to ignore some games where he was clearly playing hurt.

But on the flip side, he has a history of getting and playing hurt...

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

But on the flip side, he has a history of getting and playing hurt...

It's the classic case of "if you ignore the bad results, he's great".

He has played 311 games as an NHL goalie with solid results. Career .910 save percentage, .913 in Vancouver which is probably about what he is.

He has been worse than that this season, so probably not unreasonable to hope for an uptick next year.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's the classic case of "if you ignore the bad results, he's great".

He has played 311 games as an NHL goalie with solid results. Career .910 save percentage, .913 in Vancouver which is probably about what he is.

He has been worse than that this season, so probably not unreasonable to hope for an uptick next year.

.913 for a terrible defensive rebuilding team

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's the classic case of "if you ignore the bad results, he's great".

He has played 311 games as an NHL goalie with solid results. Career .910 save percentage, .913 in Vancouver which is probably about what he is.

He has been worse than that this season, so probably not unreasonable to hope for an uptick next year.

No, it’s “if you ignore the games he shouldn’t have been in the lineup, let alone starting”.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by madmike

Markstrom has certainly underperformed his contract, but at this point is the contract really that big a deal? The one good thing about the Flames’ lack of elite talent is they don’t really have anyone that needs to be paid. I don’t anticipate them having cap issues any time soon.

Personally, I consider Tkachuk's $9 mill QO requirement as getting paid.

But you're right. Markstrom's contract doesn't matter since Bedard's ECL will run out at the same time. Markstrom can walk and we can extend Bedard for max length.