Brad Treliving needs to go

[DeluxeMoustache]

Transplant, it’s pretty simple as to why a coach and GM change may not have happened at the same time

The owners wanted Sutter so it happened. If they don’t know who they want in a GM role at the same time, then that move waits

Coach affects immediate on ice performance, GM less directly, especially post TDL

Also I don’t think Tre gets fired, that was my vote in the poll. But I think he should be

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Transplant, it’s pretty simple as to why a coach and GM change may not have happened at the same time

The owners wanted Sutter so it happened. If they don’t know who they want in a GM role at the same time, then that move waits

Coach affects immediate on ice performance, GM less directly, especially post TDL

Also I don’t think Tre gets fired, that was my vote in the poll. But I think he should be

You can't say that as fact.

Everything points to this going back to last offseason when Treliving apparently wanted him then, before settling with Ward.

Then as things degenerated into the season he goes back to ownership asking if he can make the change if Sutter would agree. Thats when it happened and why I dont believe it was a mandate from above and why if it had been, then BT would have been gone at the same time.

Making that change cost them a lot of money, so Im not sure they are willing to go down that road again at this point...which would be the case if BT is sacked.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ agree to disagree.

The competing narrative is that the owners intervened. That’s the one I believe as it is the one that makes logical sense, and seems to be the worst kept secret around the team

(Also if I own the team and Tre comes hat in hand asking for coach 5 because coach 4 was a boo boo, I show him the door)

We’ve been through this many other times so I won’t go in to it further


TLDR;
You can’t say as fact that OJ did it

[flambers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

People still think Treliving is getting canned this year eh?

Highly unlikely.

I would agree, it sure seems like he is going to remain the GM.

Personally I view that as the wrong decision.

Treliving plan just has not worked.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ agree to disagree.

The competing narrative is that the owners intervened. That’s the one I believe as it is the one that makes logical sense, and seems to be the worst kept secret around the team

(Also if I own the team and Tre comes hat in hand asking for coach 5 because coach 4 was a boo boo, I show him the door)

We’ve been through this many other times so I won’t go in to it further


TLDR;
You can’t say as fact that OJ did it

how so?

Best claim I’ve seen from yourself has been ‘it is not a fact, but it is something I know to be true’.

Sounds religiousy.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TOfan

how so?

Best claim I’ve seen from yourself has been ‘it is not a fact, but it is something I know to be true’.

Sounds religiousy.

That’s my way of saying I understand that a public organization conscious of its brand isn’t going to just come out and air its dirty laundry

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That’s my way of saying I understand that a public organization conscious of its brand isn’t going to just come out and air its dirty laundry

Well, the next 4-5 weeks should be interesting then. Personally, I’m not holding my breath.

[Gaskal]

They should just give the job to Calgary4Life, on condition he hire GranteedEV and ComixZone as assistant GMs.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, the next 4-5 weeks should be interesting then. Personally, I’m not holding my breath.

Yes, same, my vote in the poll is that he should go but he won’t

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yes, same, my vote in the poll is that he should go but he won’t

I think Treliving’s dismissal is a topic for next offseason if the Flames do not show significant improvement.

Obviously I’ve defended his work, for the most part, but he definitely has his work cut out for himself.

[Joborule]

Whatever happens going forth, I really hope next season's roster has emphasis on speed, grit, and more top end skill/finishing abilities even if there's immediate downgrade on the talent overall if it's a retool. I would be happy to see the team actually have more shots on net rather than missing a wide open net or hitting the opposing players shins.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think Treliving’s dismissal is a topic for next offseason if the Flames do not show significant improvement.

Obviously I’ve defended his work, for the most part, but he definitely has his work cut out for himself.

I certainly hope it's no longer a topic for discussion at that point if the team doesn't show significant improvement.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

They should just give the job to Calgary4Life, on condition he hire GranteedEV and ComixZone as assistant GMs.

I would never play 2nd fiddle to Calgary4Life. I’d start undermining them at every meeting and coyly suggest that they follow their dream of performing on Broadway. They’ll then surrender the throne to me.

…then, after they leave, I’ll %#^*talk them and blame my incompetence on them. This is the way.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by flambers

I would agree, it sure seems like he is going to remain the GM.

Personally I view that as the wrong decision.

Treliving plan just has not worked.

Bringing back Ward should have been the final nail in his coffin. It still baffles me why he thought that was a good idea.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think Treliving’s dismissal is a topic for next offseason if the Flames do not show significant improvement.



Obviously I’ve defended his work, for the most part, but he definitely has his work cut out for himself.

Why would the owners need to see more of his incompetence to finally get rid of him? The team is mediocre, built around mid 20s players who have absolutely proven they are, to a man, support players not guys you build a team around. They will never win anything under BT, in fact it will take a good GM 2-3 years here just to build a top 10 team. Honestly, the deeper problem is probably Edwards. If he can't see what's going on here, what is plain as day, then there probably is no hope at all. It's his playoffs at all costs mentality combined with hiring bottom barrel GMs and coaches that truly have this team where it's at. Too bad, he's probably here ruining the chances at something good for 10+ more years at least.

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Bringing back Ward should have been the final nail in his coffin. It still baffles me why he thought that was a good idea.

It was his only option or something like that.

Actually everything is his only option so hard to criticize him really.

[dammage79]

This is Trelivings final offseason to correct this trajectory. Of that I am confident. He either gets it right or is gone.

The real question is, what is "right" in his bosses eyes?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Why would the owners need to see more of his incompetence to finally get rid of him? The team is mediocre, built around mid 20s players who have absolutely proven they are, to a man, support players not guys you build a team around. They will never win anything under BT, in fact it will take a good GM 2-3 years here just to build a top 10 team. Honestly, the deeper problem is probably Edwards. If he can't see what's going on here, what is plain as day, then there probably is no hope at all. It's his playoffs at all costs mentality combined with hiring bottom barrel GMs and coaches that truly have this team where it's at. Too bad, he's probably here ruining the chances at something good for 10+ more years at least.

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

There’s a vast gulf between “didn’t get desired results” and incompetence. Incompetent means - mentally or physically incapable of doing the job properly.

You say the Flames are a mediocre team. That by definition means he’s not incompetent - he’s just not exceptional.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by dammage79

This is Trelivings final offseason to correct this trajectory. Of that I am confident. He either gets it right or is gone.

The real question is, what is "right" in his bosses eyes?

Letting BT loose with a "save your job" mandate seems like a great way to further mire the team in long term anchors and mediocrity

[Calgary4LIfe]

After the season is finally over, maybe we can have another vote on Treliving. I know I would change my vote right now.


I think Treliving has spent way too much draft capital building a non-contender. People forget that Sutter was the GM of a contending team, with a scouting and development team that was still being built, and he spent LESS draft capital, no? Only once under Sutter did the Flames not pick in the first round anyway. At any rate, these two teams were at different points along the arcs between 'rebuilding' and 'competing'. There shouldn't have been such a spending of picks, and it is doubly annoying since I do think that this team is a good drafting team.


UFAs have mostly been terrible for the most part - at least too many big mistakes. Lots of buyouts during this time - Raymond, Bouma, Brouwer and Stone. Am I forgetting anyone? Neal was a disaster that I credit Treliving with at least salvaging some value out of (Lucic provides value - not full value on that deal, but he does provide value and I am glad that he is here, plus that was a swindle of a trade I thought at the time).


Treliving has done a lot of good work here. This man does deserve a lot of credit. This team (last year) was a more talented team than they showed on the ice, and were more talented than when he first took over. He needs to be remembered for that.


But his continual hiring of incompetent coaches and not gauging properly where this team was in their cycle is terrible. I am sure some of this was Burke as we know that is his MO, but Treliving is still the GM and is ultimately responsible.


I think one of the biggest factors on this team is defence. In the modern era now (over the last decade especially), defencemen need to have more of a 2-way ability. That was one of Calgary's strengths for years, no? I remember they were consistently near the top of the league for points from the backend. On top of this, they used to have one of the league's better squads at transitioning, no?


Giordano is this team's best 2-way defencemen and it isn't even close. What does this group look like as a unit without him next season? I am actually very worried now. Why should I be worried about losing a 38 year old defencemen who is regressing being moved off the squad?



Tanev - top 4 easily, and able to play on the top pairing. Great, right? Not so fast. He is very one-dimensional. His one dimension is elite - he is one of the league's best defencemen, bar none. However, he doesn't generate squat. Zero. He also doesn't play a physical brand of hockey either. His one dimension is being elite at defence.



Hanifin - he is providing two things - defence and he is solid on the transition. He is not generating offence really. He doesn't look dangerous on the ice. He does transition the puck out of the zone well, which is important, and I do think that next season will bring him more points even if his usage remains the same as I feel this team will transition a bit better overall and start putting more pucks in the net, but he doesn't have the vision to generate like Giordano and Brodie do.


Andersson - I am not sure why he has regressed, but he has. I always thought he looked like he struggled playing on the top pairing with Giordano last year when Brodie was out or there was an experiment going on. I do think he has some vision and has a nice shot, but he hasn't been able to translate it. I think he has looked shaky defensively still.


Nesterov - liked him to start, but what is he really bringing? He is 'meh' in all areas. Not very offensive, not a defensive stalwart, not very physical (though great touch on McDavid the other night), doesn't transition that well though he is decent at moving the puck usually. Just meh.


Valimaki - is shaky this year and hasn't lived to his 'hype', but I am 100% cutting him some slack based on the fact that he hasn't played that many games in his young career over the last couple of years.



Stone - has been physical and better defensively, and has a good shot. He looks much better, but he isn't quick and doesn't transition the puck well. He is a depth defencemen.


Kylington has the most 'promise' as being a 2-way defencemen, but doesn't get any games in, and hasn't developed.



I won't comment on anyone else, but do you see an issue? I don't think I have been too critical on the defencemen. I love Tanev, don't get me wrong. The guy is elite at defence. He just doesn't give enough for both his TOI and value on his contract, especially on a team that already has a difficult time generating from the back end.


Overall, I dislike the fact that 3 of the players that have historically elevated their games in the playoffs are now gone - Ferland, Bennett and Brodie.


Losing Brodie was terrible - both from an asset management perspective, and not realizing that the backend was getting less and less offensive and dynamic. Brodie is an elite-level puck-mover and defender who is a shot-suppression magician. He has the vision (not the shot though) to run a PP, but is best at defending and evading forechecking pressure to move the puck up quickly and help a team counter-attack. The only other defencemen that is able to do this (but has a shot) was Giordano, but he is losing a step.


From a playoffs perspective, Brodie has consistently been the team's best defencemen, and it has never been close.


Bennett has been an absolute beast come playoff time - the type of player you want to acquire, not trade away. Ferland too has been that. I don't know, but is it crazy to think that if you can put together a team with more playoff performers than less playoff performers, that maybe one can expect better results?


Where is this team going?


They are not good enough to compete right now. They don't have a good prospect pool. They started trying to compete too early. They have not been well coached and have developed terrible habits (that finally look like they are breaking slowly).


I think this team has been mismanaged. Not incompetently so, but mismanaged nonetheless. If the bar is set at only "incompetency should be terminated", then Treliving should be retained. I don't think Treliving is incompetent, but this team doesn't strike me as a contender. I do think that under Sutter's coaching, this team will better next season and should even make the playoffs, but this is not a contender.


I would argue that with the state of affairs on defence, losing players consistently who are strong playoff performers, and the startling realization that some big contracts situations are coming up quickly, it looks like things are about to get worse, not better.


This is going to be an damn interesting soap opera this off-season. For the first time since Feaster's last off-season, I worried things will not be handled right.