2021 Off season: You're in charge, what would you do?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think that’s too harsh on Tkachuk’s value. Based on the large sample size we have, this is clearly his worst year. He still has a ton of value, and I would wager that many GMs would rather pay for Tkachuk’s services at 9m for a long period of time over Boeser or Meier. He brings more to the table, when you factor in things outside of scoring, namely agitating the opposition. He draws penalties like no other. Unfortunately, we’ve lost the locker room with him there. I don’t know what happened after the Muzzin scrum, but everyone with eyes can see that something leadership wise went down and Tkachuk hasn’t been the same. We don’t know who those players are, but signs point to Gio and maybe a couple of others.

If you want to retain Tkachuk, you’ve got to move the other ones that are against what he does. I don’t think he’s happy here anymore though, based on his lackluster play and also trading two of his very good friends in Rittich and Bennett.

If there was any time to sell him, then it has to be this offseason.

Good points, and I agree with the last sentence.
But compared to a year ago, there’s a lot more risk associated with this player, no matter what you choose to do. He’s certainly not earned $7M with his play this season. I think the likely choice the Flames will make is to keep him, hope for the best, and if it doesn’t work out, trade at the deadline or keep and walk away at the end of the season. I don’t see the Flames management taking the gamble that his play would improve if the Flames moved the Tkachuk haters in the dressing room (if that really is the problem).

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Then you are missing my point.

Rutherford has 3 cups and wants back in the game. Maybe we should hire him.

I've been bringing up this name on OT for a couple of months now and it keeps getting dismissed much like I brought up Sutter's name months before he was hired. Rutherford is not afraid to make trades when they are necessary to shake things up or move big pieces. He is a former player, great student of the game and also a fan of the game. His 3 Stanley Cups with two different teams is also impressive.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

I've been bringing up this name on OT for a couple of months now and it keeps getting dismissed much like I brought up Sutter's name months before he was hired. Rutherford is not afraid to make trades when they are necessary to shake things up or move big pieces. He is a former player, great student of the game and also a fan of the game. His 3 Stanley Cups with two different teams is also impressive.

It wouldn't surprise me if this ownership group looked at Rutherford as a legit replacement option

[Scary Eloranta]

This team has proven over the past few years that they're not even remotely close to contending and have zero potential for contending. Why keep waiting for it to magically turn around. Therefore, if I'm in charge I have to do a complete rebuild from the top down. Sorry Brad, but you're a lousy GM and a crappy judge of talent. We don't have a single player to build around and the cupboard for guys coming up is pretty damn thin. I wouldn't keep a single player on this roster. I know that's not realistic, but me being GM isn't either.

Thankfully there is one guy in the organization who has the balls to say we don't have a single elite player. Thank-you Daryl. Although I don't think you're a good GM candidate either.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

I've been bringing up this name on OT for a couple of months now and it keeps getting dismissed much like I brought up Sutter's name months before he was hired. Rutherford is not afraid to make trades when they are necessary to shake things up or move big pieces. He is a former player, great student of the game and also a fan of the game. His 3 Stanley Cups with two different teams is also impressive.

Not only is he a former player, he’s the best kind. A goalie!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

I've been bringing up this name on OT for a couple of months now and it keeps getting dismissed much like I brought up Sutter's name months before he was hired. Rutherford is not afraid to make trades when they are necessary to shake things up or move big pieces. He is a former player, great student of the game and also a fan of the game. His 3 Stanley Cups with two different teams is also impressive.

His 2006 Cup has a huge asterix, as he didn't have to face a good team in the finals.

In Pittsburgh I credit him with hiring Sullivan and trading for Kessel. I don't know that his decisions in the last few years were as good. Kessel plus 4th for Galchynyuk doesn't look great. Though not re-signing Murray is looking good.

[InternationalVillager]

Essentially - what I think a lot of folks in this thread aren't understanding is that in order to be a contender, you need elite talent. The best probable way of gaining that elite talent is drafting high. Top 10. Top 5. Top 3. Until you attain that elite talent at each position - Center, Dman, Goalie - you're really not ready to compete.

Who says that tanking is easy? It's not. It needs to be done methodically. You might not be competitive or strike it rich for 4-5 years, maybe 7-8.

What I can almost guarantee you is that other than dumb luck in the later parts of the draft, you cannot compete as an organization or come close to even touching the Stanley Cup if you don't tank.

Penguins - Crosby, Malkin, Letang - everyone else has been replaced and they've been competitive for 15 years.

Bruins - Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak, Rask are all elite. It was pure luck that the Bruins turned out with this bag of riches along with Krejci.

Leafs - Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Reilly. Need I go further on? Anyone who criticizes the Leafs is being sour. Look at the Flames situation. I'd say they're much closer to competing for a Cup.

Tampa - Stamkos/Hedman always kept them in the conversation of competing. Kucherov, Point was luck that went their way and pushed them over the top.

Florida - Barkov/Huberdeau/Ekblad.

Washington - Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, Kuznetsov. All 1st rounders which turned elite.

Colorado - Mackinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Makar.

Edmonton - McDavid, Draisaitl. Just these 2 players have pulled the Oilers from the abyss and practically give them a 2 goal advantage each game.

Anyone watch the Vegas game last night? It was Stone and Pacioretty in on 3 of the goals.

Vegas - Built primarily through trades. Even they realized they fluked it in their first year as an organization and went out/traded for elite talent from other teams.

Canes - Aho, Svechnikov, Hamilton

It would be very unlikely that this year's cup winner is not coming from this list. And there are teams on this list which truly compete year after year for the Stanley Cup and that's because they have the elite talent.

Ever wondered to yourself why the Flames never seem to have enough depth? I have. Until I slowly came to the realization that a team needs elite talent at the top of the roster in order to elevate the depth players to play at a level beyond their normal capabilities.

That's how a player like Barkov can take players like Verhaeghe and others and elevate them. That's how Huberdeau can elevate Bennett and Duclair. That's how Crosby can elevate whoever you put on his line. Same with Malkin. Same with Mackinnon. Same with (insert name of elite player). ROR played some of the best hockey in his life and the Blues won the Cup. Where are they now? Are they annually competing? Likely not...because ROR played above his weight class for a limited amount of time. Now the Blues are stuck chasing the dream for another Cup. Flames punched above their weight in 2014-15 and these are the results now.

tl;dr - Comes down to best vs best. Bettor's odds are the team with the best players at the top of the roster wins. You get them at the top of the draft. Until you have them, you should keep rebuilding. Nothing good comes without sacrifice.

[InternationalVillager]

Also - ever wondered why a Canadian team hasn't won the cup for almost 30 years?

It's because a US team can absolutely suck for a long time without major repercussions. It likely wouldn't even make front page news. Because in most of those markets, there are other things to keep the population occupied. This allows the front office with enough patience to stumble upon or accumulate generational talent or elite players which turn the franchises around and lead them to championships.

Where were the Penguins before Crosby/Malkin arrived?
Bruins?
Hawks?
Kings?

Bruins/Hawks are important teams where Hockey is loved but those cities also had the Red Sox, Patriots, Bears, Cubs etc.

It's because the fan pressure/media scrutiny in Canada is so intense that it forces front offices into making bad decisions which end up in disastrous cycles of sucking.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think that’s too harsh on Tkachuk’s value. Based on the large sample size we have, this is clearly his worst year. He still has a ton of value, and I would wager that many GMs would rather pay for Tkachuk’s services at 9m for a long period of time over Boeser or Meier. He brings more to the table, when you factor in things outside of scoring, namely agitating the opposition. He draws penalties like no other. Unfortunately, we’ve lost the locker room with him there. I don’t know what happened after the Muzzin scrum, but everyone with eyes can see that something leadership wise went down and Tkachuk hasn’t been the same. We don’t know who those players are, but signs point to Gio and maybe a couple of others.

If you want to retain Tkachuk, you’ve got to move the other ones that are against what he does. I don’t think he’s happy here anymore though, based on his lackluster play and also trading two of his very good friends in Rittich and Bennett.

If there was any time to sell him, then it has to be this offseason.

Tkachuk fell off a cliff after Maurice called him out for what Maurice considered a filthy disgusting intentional hit.

Maybe it hit home when Ehlers punked him... In the interview after the game Ehlers said we learned some things that we will keep to ourselves.

After that Tkachuk was a passenger for the rest of the playoffs until Benn and Olesiak mugged him and left him out on his feet.

He hasn't been close to what he was since.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Tkachuk fell off a cliff after Maurice called him out for what Maurice considered a filthy disgusting intentional hit.

Maybe it hit home when Ehlers punked him... In the interview after the game Ehlers said we learned some things that we will keep to ourselves.

After that Tkachuk was a passenger for the rest of the playoffs until Benn and Olesiak mugged him and left him out on his feet.

He hasn't been close to what he was since.

Sorry Ricardo your precious Jets have nothing to do with it. Tkachuk dummied old man Wheeler after the freak incident. Tkachuk has been called out by many opposing coaches and players.

I would wager the concussion would have more of an impact than a comment a coach of an opposing team made

[The Cobra]

I asked Wesley Snipes what he would do if he ran the Flames, and he replied “I’d shoot myself”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[drewtastic]

I hope to have a more substantive post to add to this thread soon...

...but in the meantime...

I don't know how you don't re-sign Derek Ryan (at a reduced rate) for at least one more season...

He's such a smart player and has significant value as a centre, PKer and veteran who can play up the lineup if required. I'm shocked that he didn't attract enough attention at the trade deadline to warrant a trade.

Given all that, I hope the Flames re-sign him. He's a beauty.

[browna]

Flames need a pure finisher for the top line. Out of nowhere that was Ferland for 1.3 seaosns.

Treliving I think knows that had the option of that a couple years back in Mark Stone but chose to hold on to Valamaki instead.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by browna

Flames need a pure finisher for the top line. Out of nowhere that was Ferland for 1.3 seaosns.

Treliving I think knows that had the option of that a couple years back in Mark Stone but chose to hold on to Valamaki instead.

Come on now...he wasn't signing here. That would have been a bad trade for a rental

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by browna

Flames need a pure finisher for the top line. Out of nowhere that was Ferland for 1.3 seaosns.

Treliving I think knows that had the option of that a couple years back in Mark Stone but chose to hold on to Valamaki instead.

First of all, Stone’s game wasn’t really “pure finisher”. It was “good, heavy 200 foot player”.

Second, if Treliving makes that deal in 2018, in 2021 Calgary has no Valimaki, no Stone and no “whatever else Calgary had to give up”. And Stone would be in Vegas like he is right now.

[CliffFletcher]

If your star forwards are only effective if they play on a line with two other star forwards, maybe they’re just not very good to begin with.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Also - ever wondered why a Canadian team hasn't won the cup for almost 30 years?

It's because a US team can absolutely suck for a long time without major repercussions. It likely wouldn't even make front page news. Because in most of those markets, there are other things to keep the population occupied. This allows the front office with enough patience to stumble upon or accumulate generational talent or elite players which turn the franchises around and lead them to championships.

Where were the Penguins before Crosby/Malkin arrived?
Bruins?
Hawks?
Kings?

Bruins/Hawks are important teams where Hockey is loved but those cities also had the Red Sox, Patriots, Bears, Cubs etc.

It's because the fan pressure/media scrutiny in Canada is so intense that it forces front offices into making bad decisions which end up in disastrous cycles of sucking.

You're right about there being a reason American teams build properly, while Canadian teams don't, and it's why there hasn't been one that has won the cup in recent memory, but I don't believe it's due to fan pressure. It's self inflected damage by short sighted greediness and rushing the process of rebuilding.

The owners/management of Canadian franchise typically don't have the patience to see a rebuild pan out for several seasons, and make transactions to rush the process when they aren't in their contender window yet with the roster they've assembled. As a result, this is why Canadian teams are seldom in making it to the conference finals, let alone Stanley Cup Final. It's how you get what the Calgary Flames are today since the same damn thing has happened here with Treliving as GM.

But Toronto does have a strong enough roster, and had done well with their picks that they may finally be the team that actually is a contender for a few seasons, and finally make it back to the cup final, which has been over a half century for them.

It's kinda ironic that Canadian teams don't get this, since they ultimately are leaving money on the table from the possible multiple cup runs they've lost out on as a result.

[CliffFletcher]

The dumbest thing about the impatience of Canadian franchises is they’ll continue to fill arenas even when the teams are bad. That should give them the confidence to endure some down years in exchange for long-term gain.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The dumbest thing about the impatience of Canadian franchises is they’ll continue to fill arenas even when the teams are bad. That should give them the confidence to endure some down years in exchange for long-term gain.

Yes this narrative of too much fan and media pressure on Canadian franchises is weak.

The average high school football coach in TX faces more pressure than the Calgary Flames.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Bumpity bumpity bump! Now that we are officially done, and we're hearing from the players, what do you do?