Brad Treliving needs to go

[Calgary4LIfe]

Letters are for the losers up north.


Do you really believe you need a letter sent to you by the Flames to know where they are?


Teams are always in one of 3 points:


1) Rebuilding
2) Building
3) Winning Cups


Where do you think the Flames are? Obviously not option 1 as they are selling all their vets, so they are not rebuilding.


They are definitely not in option 3 as I don't expect a cup parade in a couple of months.


Therefore, they must be in option 2 - building. I expect them to adjust the core, and try to bring-in players that fit this team better.



I don't need a letter detailing where they think they are.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Letters are for the losers up north.


Do you really believe you need a letter sent to you by the Flames to know where they are?


Teams are always in one of 3 points:


1) Rebuilding
2) Building
3) Winning Cups


Where do you think the Flames are? Obviously not option 1 as they are selling all their vets, so they are not rebuilding.


They are definitely not in option 3 as I don't expect a cup parade in a couple of months.


Therefore, they must be in option 2 - building. I expect them to adjust the core, and try to bring-in players that fit this team better.



I don't need a letter detailing where they think they are.

The missing pieces for this team need to either be acquired through:

1. UFA - Not possible
2. Trade - Flames don't have the assets
3. Draft - Need to "tank" in order to maximize this

But let's go along with Option #2 - Building. Building what exactly? This core has been together for 6 years. What have they actually accomplished which gives the fan base any faith that they are able to contend for a Cup. Their #1 Dman is their 38 year old Captain. Gaudreau/Monahan are up for extensions over the next couple of years. You want to hand them extensions for another 6 years to do exactly what?

Monahan/Gaudreau aren't landing you elite pieces. Those are what you need. You can only really be "building" once your elite pieces are in place. Without them, your hockey team is dead in the water. Look around the league. Don't really see any teams competing for the Cup without elite players.

Giving your young players plenty of ice time and ability to develop shouldn't be hated. Stop considering "tanking" a sin. It's in the normal cycle of a sports team.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What if Treliving proposes a tear-down to ownership and they say no?

Do the owners want to hear the truth, or do they want to hear what they want to hear?

Or put another way, is the 'mandate' even up for discussion?

There's a lot of nuance here and it's hard to drill it right now, but it's the crux of the issue IMO.

I suspect the owners first question tends to be: how does this impact our odds of making the playoffs this year? And if the answer is anything resembling 'worse', it's a non-starter.

Put another way, has Brad ever had the freedom to even consider a question like: "do I believe Johnny and Monny can lead a team through 4 rounds?", because the alternative is an implicit reduction of playoff odds for a couple of years...


Of course, he hasn't necessarily had a gun to his head saying 'push your chips in the middle, or else!'...but maybe his mandate has actually been 'do things to make the team better NOW'.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

The missing pieces for this team need to either be acquired through:

1. UFA - Not possible
2. Trade - Flames don't have the assets
3. Draft - Need to "tank" in order to maximize this

But let's go along with Option #2 - Building. Building what exactly? This core has been together for 6 years. What have they actually accomplished which gives the fan base any faith that they are able to contend for a Cup. Their #1 Dman is their 38 year old Captain. Gaudreau/Monahan are up for extensions over the next couple of years. You want to hand them extensions for another 6 years to do exactly what?

Monahan/Gaudreau aren't landing you elite pieces. Those are what you need. You can only really be "building" once your elite pieces are in place. Without them, your hockey team is dead in the water. Look around the league. Don't really see any teams competing for the Cup without elite players.

Giving your young players plenty of ice time and ability to develop shouldn't be hated. Stop considering "tanking" a sin. It's in the normal cycle of a sports team.

I haven't made a judgment on tanking. You can include 'tanking' on the rebuilding timeline.


Sounds like you don't really need a letter sent to you proclaiming what the Flames are going to do then, right? Seems like you can recognize what is happening as it happens.


As for 'building what?" - Flames are trying to build a Stanley Cup winner. Until they turn around and start rebuilding (including tanking) or until they win a cup, that's where they are at. Sometimes an organization takes a step back - St. Louis started sliding and was looking like a failed rebuild, and then had a terrible start to a season, and managed to turn it around and win a cup. Pittsburgh built on a generational player and a near generational player (and then some), but managed to put a team together and win a cup. Then they slid for a while, seemingly further and further away from being a contender any longer, and then they win another cup.


This might be a slide. Either way, changes will be made. If those changes don't work, then the organization has to look at other changes, or just starting over and entering a rebuild.


I seriously doubt that they will rebuild. I am not against it, but it doesn't seem like that's the way they are going. So just enjoy the changes and see what happens.

[GreenLantern2814]

It’s time to tank like Guderian.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

One of the more humorous parts of Treliving's tenure is the vocal emphasis he has had on drafting and acquiring players with good/strong "character," yet this group consistently folds like a cheap suit at the slightest bit of adversity.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

If Treliving is not willing to tear this roster down and rebuild - he should be let go.

Just ask the man a simple question: What is your 5 year plan?

It’s likely not his decision.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s likely not his decision.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Then he shouldn’t want to be the GM here.

I find it so odd that we crap on our owners all the time.

- they spend to the cap EVERY year, despite constant garbage results
- “they won’t spend on a coach”, and then Darryl gets hired

This team is garbage because Treliving is the GM. He’s had every possible resource made available to him, and he’s accomplished nothing. Perhaps there was something to him not having full control in his first few years, but he was also a rookie GM and reporting to a President of Hockey Ops, but that hasn’t been the case for a while now.

Dude just isn’t a good General Manager in this league, even if he is the best one we’ve had in a while.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Actually might be a good thing if they didn't spend to the cap every year. Creates a dynamic where there is an expectation to compete.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Actually might be a good thing if they didn't spend to the cap every year. Creates a dynamic where there is an expectation to compete.

I definitely agree.

I generally don’t think teams should go into free agency and pay premiums for players unless they are:

- elite (Panarin) at age 27 or 28
- a bargain bin contract

Your team just shouldn’t be paying depth players free agent money. It just doesn’t really work, especially in a market like Calgary where we’re generally paying a premium anyways.

Stop spending just because you can.

[Joborule]

If I was the owners, I wouldn't be too pleased that I'm not getting more playoff revenue if I'm allowing my GM to spend to the cap, and have multiple buyouts, and multiple fired coaches still on the payroll.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I definitely agree.

I generally don’t think teams should go into free agency and pay premiums for players unless they are:

- elite (Panarin) at age 27 or 28
- a bargain bin contract

Your team just shouldn’t be paying depth players free agent money. It just doesn’t really work, especially in a market like Calgary where we’re generally paying a premium anyways.

Stop spending just because you can.

Agreed and it does seem like that approach would pay off more in the long run. How many UFA deals would be classified as bad, average or good if one looked back. I haven't done the work but I bet it's something like 50% bad, 40% average and 10% good value.

Would also be interesting to go back and see what % of UFA deals lead to buyouts.

Have some more strict guard rails would seem to be effective. i have a budget in my job, but that doesn't mean I can spend it any way I want. And I certainly don't spend it all unless it's for good reason.

But again it comes down to the dynamics that we don't have visibility to.

Is it "Onwers: Brad we are giving you a full budget so we expect to compete"
Or is it "Brad: Owners in order to compete I need a full budget".

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Then he shouldn’t want to be the GM here.

I find it so odd that we crap on our owners all the time.

- they spend to the cap EVERY year, despite constant garbage results
- “they won’t spend on a coach”, and then Darryl gets hired

This team is garbage because Treliving is the GM. He’s had every possible resource made available to him, and he’s accomplished nothing. Perhaps there was something to him not having full control in his first few years, but he was also a rookie GM and reporting to a President of Hockey Ops, but that hasn’t been the case for a while now.

Dude just isn’t a good General Manager in this league, even if he is the best one we’ve had in a while.

Yeah pretty much.

I don’t think Treliving is a bad GM necessarily, but his vision is completely flawed. He walks in every year with a revamped defense and a new goalie and thinks this team is ready to take the next step. He finally gets an “elite” goaltender in Jacob Markstrom and an elite defensive defensemen and now the Flames can’t even get to the playoffs.

His right wing depth is an absolute abomination. It’s a travesty. Watching Tyler Toffoli by himself consistently crush the Flames playoff hopes is an absolute gut punch. I don’t think Treliving would know a what a good right winger looks like if it bit him in the ass.

[Manhattanboy]

Every passing day points more to his must firing.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yeah pretty much.

I don’t think Treliving is a bad GM necessarily, but his vision is completely flawed. He walks in every year with a revamped defense and a new goalie and thinks this team is ready to take the next step. He finally gets an “elite” goaltender in Jacob Markstrom and an elite defensive defensemen and now the Flames can’t even get to the playoffs.

His right wing depth is an absolute abomination. It’s a travesty. Watching Tyler Toffoli by himself consistently crush the Flames playoff hopes is an absolute gut punch. I don’t think Treliving would know a what a good right winger looks like if it bit him in the ass.

He got hired in April 2014, and:

- didn’t acquire a #1 goalie until October 2020
- didn’t sign an NHL head coach until March 2021

Like…what? How do you even…

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He got hired in April 2014, and:

- didn’t acquire a #1 goalie until October 2020
- didn’t sign an NHL head coach until March 2021

Like…what? How do you even…

He was focused on drafting and developing.

Oh wait.

[Jacks]

Pretty sure when Treliving extended it was reported that he would have full control without any interference. I personally believe that ownership made him hire Sutter and that it was either that or be fired, last straw.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He was focused on drafting and developing.

Oh wait.

It’s all in the process. Trust, It will come. Brad has a plan

[keenan87]

Flames won't be making the playoffs. Don't let the door hit you on your way out, Brad.

[nik-]

If he even gets fired the Flames will wait too long for a new GM to get any traction towards a new direction for next season. The person will also be hired after a brutally unthorough hiring process of course.

Treliving should already be gone, but this organization loves to sit on its hands until it's way too late.