2021 Off season: You're in charge, what would you do?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Have the Flames ever acquired a 1st round for from a team that ended up missing the playoffs?
Have they even acquired a 1st round pick for a draft that was more than a year in the future?

I can't remember any examples of either of these, but it would be nice.

They made the Bouwmeester trade in 2013 but they allowed the Blues to lottery protect the pick. Blues ended up making the playoffs anyway. That is the only example I can think of

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Have the Flames ever acquired a 1st round for from a team that ended up missing the playoffs?
Have they even acquired a 1st round pick for a draft that was more than a year in the future?

I can't remember any examples of either of these, but it would be nice.

It’s bound to be a rare occurrence for any team (your first example) just because of why teams get players. I think the second is far more common and often it’s a result of the option of the team giving the pick.

Of course Calgary gave a first and missed the POs.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s bound to be a rare occurrence for any team (your first example) just because of why teams get players. I think the second is far more common and often it’s a result of the option of the team giving the pick.

Of course Calgary gave a first and missed the POs.

Flames did that twice. They gave a 1st for Jokinen and had the pick of their 09 or 2010 pick they decided to keep 09, trade back and draft Tom Erixon. They are forced to give up the 13th overall pick to the Yotes the next year.

2017 Treliving makes his worst trade as GM for Hamonic and the team avoids a near disaster as winning game 82 moved them ahead of the Hurricanes who went on to win 2nd overall in the lotto.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Flames did that twice. They gave a 1st for Jokinen and had the pick of their 09 or 2010 pick they decided to keep 09, trade back and draft Tom Erixon. They are forced to give up the 13th overall pick to the Yotes the next year.

2017 Treliving makes his worst trade as GM for Hamonic and the team avoids a near disaster as winning game 82 moved them ahead of the Hurricanes who went on to win 2nd overall in the lotto.

Moral victory though! Winning that last game let us keep the core together in 2018!

[Dude Where's Makar?]

I'll go with a "win now" plan as that's what I believe the mandate from the top is.

1. Fire Treliving, Hire Dean Lombardi
2. Trade Johnny for Forsberg
3. Expose Giordano in expansion and/or trade him
4. Name new captain. Tkatchuk, Tanev, Lindolm could all be potential candidates. Let the room decided.
5. Target UFA players that bring speed, jam, physicality, work ethic and skill. My two targets would be Coleman and Hyman. I would also prioritize signing one of Jamie Oleksiak or Adam Larsson.
6. A trade involving Monahan for Schmaltz

Forsberg - Lindholm - Hyman
Mangi - Schmaltz - Tkatchuk
Coleman - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Gawdin - Ritchie

Hanifin - Tanev
Oleksiak - Andersson
Valimaki - Larsson

Markstrom

[Weitz]

What does treliving convince another GM that his players are? I’m not trading for gaudreau or tkachuck based on contracts. So what do you do?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Dude Where's Makar?

I'll go with a "win now" plan as that's what I believe the mandate from the top is.

1. Fire Treliving, Hire Dean Lombardi
2. Trade Johnny for Forsberg
3. Expose Giordano in expansion and/or trade him
4. Name new captain. Tkatchuk, Tanev, Lindolm could all be potential candidates. Let the room decided.
5. Target UFA players that bring speed, jam, physicality, work ethic and skill. My two targets would be Coleman and Hyman. I would also prioritize signing one of Jamie Oleksiak or Adam Larsson.
6. A trade involving Monahan for Schmaltz

Forsberg - Lindholm - Hyman
Mangi - Schmaltz - Tkatchuk
Coleman - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Gawdin - Ritchie

Hanifin - Tanev
Oleksiak - Andersson
Valimaki - Larsson

Markstrom

If item 1 happens, extremely unlikely items 2,3&6 happen. Generally, when a new GM is hired he’s ’going to want to see what he has’.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If item 1 happens, extremely unlikely items 2,3&6 happen. Generally, when a new GM is hired he’s ’going to want to see what he has’.

Yup. Anybody hoping for big changes and a new gm at the same time , won’t be happy. No chance a new gm is hired at end of season and starts trading big pieces of the core before expansion draft. I do think Tre time has come to an end , but I rather keep him for the big changes that are needed this off season , than have new gm do nothing.

[Strange Brew]

When it comes to a new GM, you have to be playing a long game. I vote for getting started sooner than later.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Yup. Anybody hoping for big changes and a new gm at the same time , won’t be happy. No chance a new gm is hired at end of season and starts trading big pieces of the core before expansion draft. I do think Tre time has come to an end , but I rather keep him for the big changes that are needed this off season , than have new gm do nothing.

But does Tre and his group have a plan? Maybe we need a GM who knows what he is going to build? Wouldn't it be better to have that person in place sooner than later, especially for any big changes?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

They made the Bouwmeester trade in 2013 but they allowed the Blues to lottery protect the pick. Blues ended up making the playoffs anyway. That is the only example I can think of

I guess my point is:
The farther in the future you go, the more volatile the pick. A 2027 pick for the Tampa Bay Lightning could be a lottery pick. Who knows.
It might be nice to have a wildcard 1st for a change. One that's not lottery protected .

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

But does Tre and his group have a plan? Maybe we need a GM who knows what he is going to build? Wouldn't it be better to have that person in place sooner than later, especially for any big changes?

Why would you think he doesn’t have a plan? Seems kinda silly to think otherwise, no?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Weitz

What does treliving convince another GM that his players are? I’m not trading for gaudreau or tkachuck based on contracts. So what do you do?

I'm guessing he's going to just pack it in. Gaudreau and Tkachuk have no value so we might as well become the worst team in league history for a period of 10 years, draft the best video game cheat code player in history, then proceed to be completely mediocre and make the playoffs 2 out of 6 years. Lots to look forward to!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Why would you think he doesn’t have a plan? Seems kinda silly to think otherwise, no?

Well, if you have seen what this organization has accomplished under him, the ownership should hand Tre a new plan:

Plan
1. Pack your ####

[Jig]

Totally agree Brad pack your bags
Let someone else review the process

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Why would you think he doesn’t have a plan? Seems kinda silly to think otherwise, no?

He may have a plan but right now it is not looking very good! What is his next step because this currant group is not playing very well when it matters?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

He may have a plan but right now it is not looking very good! What is his next step because this currant group is not playing very well when it matters?

The better question to ask is; why isn’t the plan working? What went wrong and what needs to be done to get back on track?

I don’t recall many journalists, broadcasters, insiders, analysts, bloggers, podcasts picking the Flames to miss the playoffs at the start of the season. Who met expectations out of this group? Gaudreau? Monahan? Tkachuk? Dube? Backlund? Anderson? Markstrom? Valamaki? Bennett (while he was here)? Pretty uninspired performances from the majority of your line up on far too many nights, I would say. Unless you believe that they are that bad. I don’t.

Just my two cents, but the person(s) to make these judgements are the ones who know the team/situation the best. Treliving hiring Sutter when he did was all about setting the table for next year, so I would imagine that is part of his plan. I also guess that, in short order, we will start to see some roster adjustments, such as Mackey, Rudizka, Gawdin and maybe Philips getting some mins. Again, that whole seeing what you got thing.

At seasons end, conduct your year ends. Is Sutter going to make any changes to the coaching staff? Make your protection list. Find out where you’re drafting and then get the scalpel out and start preforming surgery to this roster. As Friedman stated recently, a lot of groundwork has already taken place. I’m expecting some pretty significant roster reconstruction this offseason.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Moral victory though! Winning that last game let us keep the core together in 2018!

Not sure what you mean? They traded Dougie, Ferland, and Fox for Lindholm and Hanifin and signed Ryan and Neal as free agents. They also changed coaches. Not sure what you were aiming at with that post?

Honestly after that offseason I am surprised they did so little this offseason after a second consecutive first round loss. The 2018 offseason was the last time I really thought Treliving was at the top of his game

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

The better question to ask is; why isn’t the plan working? What went wrong and what needs to be done to get back on track?

I don’t recall many journalists, broadcasters, insiders, analysts, bloggers, podcasts picking the Flames to miss the playoffs at the start of the season. Who met expectations out of this group? Gaudreau? Monahan? Tkachuk? Dube? Backlund? Anderson? Markstrom? Valamaki? Bennett (while he was here)? Pretty uninspired performances from the majority of your line up on far too many nights, I would say. Unless you believe that they are that bad. I don’t.

Just my two cents, but the person(s) to make these judgements are the ones who know the team/situation the best. Treliving hiring Sutter when he did was all about setting the table for next year, so I would imagine that is part of his plan. I also guess that, in short order, we will start to see some roster adjustments, such as Mackey, Rudizka, Gawdin and maybe Philips getting some mins. Again, that whole seeing what you got thing.

At seasons end, conduct your year ends. Is Sutter going to make any changes to the coaching staff? Make your protection list. Find out where you’re drafting and then get the scalpel out and start preforming surgery to this roster. As Friedman stated recently, a lot of groundwork has already taken place. I’m expecting some pretty significant roster reconstruction this offseason.

Okay, well if there is a plan why isn't it working?

Looks like we came out of a rebuild too soon and don't have enough horses to overcome a broken wheel. Tkachuk has been a no show when he gets paid to be a difference maker. Monahan has been struggling and we don't have enough skill that can step in and ease the load. Are some guys injured, out of shape, or just don't care enough? Every team has these same issues but the Flames seem unprepared and trending in the wrong direction. Who are the young guys coming in for next season, why are they not getting some opportunities now, are they not ready?

Hard to see a plan when not much changed from last season, Same issues with some of the same players. What are we looking forward to? Much better effort and direction with a new coach, but this mix is still not getting it done.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Okay, well if there is a plan why isn't it working?

Looks like we came out of a rebuild too soon and don't have enough horses to overcome a broken wheel. Tkachuk has been a no show when he gets paid to be a difference maker. Monahan has been struggling and we don't have enough skill that can step in and ease the load. Are some guys injured, out of shape, or just don't care enough? Every team has these same issues but the Flames seem unprepared and trending in the wrong direction. Who are the young guys coming in for next season, why are they not getting some opportunities now, are they not ready?

Hard to see a plan when not much changed from last season, Same issues with some of the same players. What are we looking forward to? Much better effort and direction with a new coach, but this mix is still not getting it done.

Because hardly any NHL plans work? Because there’s a lot of guesswork and luck involved?