American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Sluggo]

Re: Border Issues

Structurally, there will always be an increase of Refugees during the spring due to the fact that most sane people don't like crossing a dessert on foot during the winter or summer. In addition, there is a boring normal guy in the Whitehouse that is not spamming controversy through his twitter account and the media has to look elsewhere for content... some outlets will just double back on the easy time they had during the last 5 years and just repeat what other politicians are making a big deal about including senators who like to cosplay as JFK on a boat near Mexico.

[Bill Bumface]

I find it kind of gross that "children in cages" was disgusting when it was under the watch under an awful man, but now it's ok when it's "our guy".

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I find it kind of gross that "children in cages" was disgusting when it was under the watch under an awful man, but now it's ok when it's "our guy".

It is what it is, and always will be in America now, it seems. Completely political, based on which side you fall.

Most favorable: vaccine rollout, which is 100% operation warp speed and the previous administration, unless you listen to the left.
Least favorable: border, which is mostly a continuation of the mess left by the previous administration, unless you listen to the right.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

It is what it is, and always will be in America now, it seems. Completely political, based on which side you fall.

Most favorable: vaccine rollout, which is 100% operation warp speed and the previous administration, unless you listen to the left.
Least favorable: border, which is mostly a continuation of the mess left by the previous administration, unless you listen to the right.

The last admin also said 15 cases to zero like a miracle and called covid a hoax. It's hard to give someone credit for putting out a fire they poured gas on that killed hundreds of thousands of people. Republicans are also being vaccinated at much lower rates because of false information.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The last admin also said 15 cases to zero like a miracle and called covid a hoax. It's hard to give someone credit for putting out a fire they poured gas on that killed hundreds of thousands of people. Republicans are also being vaccinated at much lower rates because of false information.

So operation warp speed was not responsible for the vaccine success story in America?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

586,000 dead is a vaccine success story?

The guy lied, spread misinformation, was slow to act, blasted governors for not opening up their states, said it was like the flu, didn't tell anyone to wear a mask, held rallies and said it will go away soon. Oh......and it wasn't his fault.

A success would be if America did the exact opposite of whatever Trump was saying.

[jayswin]

Yeah, the vaccine success story is that .....they're America. They could have said "**** vaccines, we don't want a single one" until the day vaccines started shipping out and then said "Actually we changed our minds and we're America so you will give us as many doses as we request and the rest of the world can **** off" and they would have got their vaccines.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

And also.........Trump never did jack squat until the polls showed he was getting crushed on that topic. He obviously doesn't care how many Americans die, he just cares about himself.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Because they were going to fix it "Day 1". The border situation is just as disgusting as Trump left it (perhaps worse with the influx of people) and it shouldn't be shrugged off, as real humans continue to suffer every day.

The border situation isn’t “disgusting.”

I’m not even sure that it is a “situation.”

But, presuming for the sake of argument that you are correct, what is/are your proposed solution(s) to the matter?

I ask because I find that a lot of people complain about the matter, but are seemingly unwilling or incapable of offering any suggestions on how to fix anything. Rather, they just complain about it.

As far as I am concerned, if politicians really wanted to reduce Hispanic immigration, then they would help to strengthen the economies of Mexico and Central American countries, legalize drugs, and assist in crime reduction there. But that would cost a lot of money and go against the military/police-industrial complex, so.....

But more fundamentally, no one really wants to reduce such immigration because, without it, the US economy won’t work the way they want it to. No one wants to pay $5 for a tomato, or $350 for a basic hotel room, or $50 for a basic restaurant meal. The only way the economy works is with cheap labor, and immigration keeps that going.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

586,000 dead is a vaccine success story?

The guy lied, spread misinformation, was slow to act, blasted governors for not opening up their states, said it was like the flu, didn't tell anyone to wear a mask, held rallies and said it will go away soon. Oh......and it wasn't his fault.

A success would be if America did the exact opposite of whatever Trump was saying.

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

And also.........Trump never did jack squat until the polls showed he was getting crushed on that topic. He obviously doesn't care how many Americans die, he just cares about himself.

I do not disagree with any of that. Well, most of that anyway. 586,000 dead is not a failure of vaccines, it an abject failure of the administration led by a megalomaniac who cared nothing about people dying, who did probably 1000 things wrong while in office. And one thing right, regardless what motivated its creation: operation warp speed.

[jayswin]

But again, operation warp speed was basically "we're America, we'll take the majority of doses now, kthxbye".

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

So operation warp speed was not responsible for the vaccine success story in America?

Yes, and no.

The easy thing was to throw money at the problem. The harder thing was to actually give a #### about preparing for distribution and the practical problems of getting America vaccinated.

As always, Trump did the easiest thing possible and claimed a victory when everyone else (i.e. the scientists and engineers) did the actual work. It was a huge problem for the Biden administration when they took over as there was literally no plan to get America vaccinated. Don didn't care, he was on the way out "not my problem".

BTW, not every vaccine company accepted money for development. Many did not want to be associated with Trump because they didn't want to be beholden to political influence for a very important scientific process.

So yeah, they get some credit, but honestly, they didn't do a whole lot to help. They did far more to harm the country by denying a problem in the first place, allowing for it to take hold and become endemic. Then they continued to spout pseudoscience in the vague hope that they would get lucky. They didn't, and it got so much worse because of inconsistent messaging.

It's like setting a fire in a warehouse and then showing up with a bucket of water claiming "hey, I helped put this out!".

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But again, operation warp speed was basically "we're America, we'll take the majority of doses now, kthxbye".

Yeah. 22 billion has to buy you something, no?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Re: Border Issues

Structurally, there will always be an increase of Refugees during the spring due to the fact that most sane people don't like crossing a dessert on foot during the winter or summer. In addition, there is a boring normal guy in the Whitehouse that is not spamming controversy through his twitter account and the media has to look elsewhere for content... some outlets will just double back on the easy time they had during the last 5 years and just repeat what other politicians are making a big deal about including senators who like to cosplay as JFK on a boat near Mexico.

There's also pent up demand, the pandemic had a bigger effect on travel than anything, and now that it is waning (or at least fears and restrictions are waning), it's somewhat normal to see a portion of that demand surge in.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

The border situation isn’t “disgusting.”

I’m not even sure that it is a “situation.”

But, presuming for the sake of argument that you are correct, what is/are your proposed solution(s) to the matter?

I ask because I find that a lot of people complain about the matter, but are seemingly unwilling or incapable of offering any suggestions on how to fix anything. Rather, they just complain about it.

As far as I am concerned, if politicians really wanted to reduce Hispanic immigration, then they would help to strengthen the economies of Mexico and Central American countries, legalize drugs, and assist in crime reduction there. But that would cost a lot of money and go against the military/police-industrial complex, so.....

But more fundamentally, no one really wants to reduce such immigration because, without it, the US economy won’t work the way they want it to. No one wants to pay $5 for a tomato, or $350 for a basic hotel room, or $50 for a basic restaurant meal. The only way the economy works is with cheap labor, and immigration keeps that going.

Yeah, pretty sure the suggestion is “stop putting kids in cages.”

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, pretty sure the suggestion is “stop putting kids in cages.”

Gotta take our time first.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

The border situation isn’t “disgusting.”

I’m not even sure that it is a “situation.”

But, presuming for the sake of argument that you are correct, what is/are your proposed solution(s) to the matter?

I'm not going to do the legwork for you, but go back and listen to all of Biden's and Harris' comments about the border situation before they were elected.

I believe it was referred to as a humanitarian disaster. There were several actions promised for "day 1" after they came into office.

It is astounding to me what people are willing to give a pass on when it doesn't fit their partisan narrative.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

So operation warp speed was not responsible for the vaccine success story in America?

Pfizer was developed with German public funding.

Good for the US for sitting on a pile of vaccines, it follows their cultural values that the wealthy get taken care of first. The US is sitting on almost 30M doses of AZ, which they haven't even approved, that were largely produced in India, while Indians drop dead at an alarming rate.

This is a global problem that won't be solved with the local solution of one country hoarding vaccines.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

So operation warp speed was not responsible for the vaccine success story in America?

The most used vaccine in the USA is the Pfizer which wanted no money nor anything to do with Trump or his politics, J&J and Astrazeneca were more of a buy than development, GSK, Sanofi and Novavax haven't produced anything yet and Moderna who only got half their funding under warp speed seems to be a success.

In the end, Trumps handling of covid cost far more lives than he saved with so-called "operation warp speed"

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by bill bumface

pfizer was developed with german public funding.

Good for the us for sitting on a pile of vaccines, it follows their cultural values that the wealthy get taken care of first. The us is sitting on almost 30m doses of az, which they haven't even approved, that were largely produced in india, while indians drop dead at an alarming rate.

This is a global problem that won't be solved with the local solution of one country hoarding vaccines.

You and all your pile-on like pals were saying?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1386723618802081793