Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[troutman]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1382849975336439817

[troutman]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...dget-1.5987561

Coun. Jeff Davison said the two parties are still working together and that CSEC has not asked for more money.

"There's been no ask of council for additional public dollars to go into this project. Council is committed to the deal we have signed. We are committed to the four major capital projects that we have going on in the city and we put a very specific model forward, a very specific model to go and do that," he said.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://twitter.com/user/status/1382849975336439817

Originally Posted by troutman

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...dget-1.5987561

So:

• The Flames relocation threat is empty
• The CTV leak about the Flames ask may be wrong, if Davidson is telling the truth.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Mull

So:

• The Flames relocation threat is empty
• The CTV leak about the Flames ask may be wrong, if Davidson is telling the truth.

Or could be still true, but perhaps moreso Flames investing $70 million more from their end.

Still don't really know, but this is why context is important.

[PepsiFree]

But Farkas said this was a STUNNING DEVELOPMENT! He said we would be FURIOUS!

Farkas would not lie to us, he is a reasonable man who is only unpopular because he is not part of the trendy liberals! I expect the Flames are in chats with Albuquerque as we speak.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Mull

So:

• The Flames relocation threat is empty

There was no relocation threat. That was entirely wild speculation in this thread.

No one with any actual knowledge of what's going on has even suggested that the deal is close to falling apart, let alone any threat of the team leaving.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by getbak

There was no relocation threat. That was entirely wild speculation in this thread.

No one with any actual knowledge of what's going on has even suggested that the deal is close to falling apart, let alone any threat of the team leaving.

I mean it was implied by the Flames themselves in the previous agreement discussions.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

I mean it was implied by the Flames themselves in the previous agreement discussions.

Don't kid yourself. If the arena deal was to fall apart for whatever reason, the Flames will most definitely be seriously considering relocation. I don't think the deal will fall apart but if it did the Flames would really have no alternative.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think anyone said “taking advantage”. Just good negotiator. But even the best negotiator is tied to circumstances of leverage and motivations of each side.

FWIW the lawyers for RCR when he white knighted them were excellent. I imagine the lawyers for Royal Dutch Shell, Anadarko, Penn West, et al were pretty darn good too.

Frankly, legal advice has little to do with these kinds of negotiations. And I don’t even know if Edwards is involved on a direct basis.

Wasn't RCR in bankruptcy protection? I suppose, as with the arena, there are only a few locals willing to invest in that venture. I couldn't imagine RCR had a great BATNA.

Also, as with leverage, there is also the factor of what the other side is willing to sell something for. Is Royal Dutch Shell really getting hosed on their deal? perhaps to CNRL; but i imagine RDS had their own optimal goals in mind too.

It's tough to tell what the other side of a negotiation is considering a win.

If a seller is willing to go as low as $1m and the buy is willing to go as high as $2m and they settle for $1.5m who won?

Sorry, i know we are getting off topic, it just seems like many people think Murray Edwards is going to run circles around the city so we should all be really scared.

Maybe im projecting as I have seen this countless times in my line of work. Client asks "are you scared to go up against a big oil company here? i need someone who isnt scared!" dude this is my job, i have about 30 files against oil companies at a given time

[Gugstanley]

Hopefully, this is just bull#### posturing by both sides. If the Flames move the only acceptable location for me is Salt Lake City. Other than that I would probably be done with NHL hockey.

[transplant99]

Yup....anyone who believes the Flames wouldnt seriously look at leaving if this thing was to fall apart is either naive, hasnt been paying attention, or are plugging their ears yelling lalalala because they dont want to hear it. We are still a long way from that, but it certainly doesnt mean that option isnt real nor out there.

Whether Edwards and company still would own it or not (they wouldnt) is irrelevant.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Don't kid yourself. If the arena deal was to fall apart for whatever reason, the Flames will most definitely be seriously considering relocation. I don't think the deal will fall apart but if it did the Flames would really have no alternative.

I don't disagree. I was responding to the claim that there was no relocation threat. There was, the Flames made it themselves.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Wasn't RCR in bankruptcy protection? I suppose, as with the arena, there are only a few locals willing to invest in that venture. I couldn't imagine RCR had a great BATNA.

Also, as with leverage, there is also the factor of what the other side is willing to sell something for. Is Royal Dutch Shell really getting hosed on their deal? perhaps to CNRL; but i imagine RDS had their own optimal goals in mind too.

It's tough to tell what the other side of a negotiation is considering a win.

If a seller is willing to go as low as $1m and the buy is willing to go as high as $2m and they settle for $1.5m who won?

Sorry, i know we are getting off topic, it just seems like many people think Murray Edwards is going to run circles around the city so we should all be really scared.

Maybe im projecting as I have seen this countless times in my line of work. Client asks "are you scared to go up against a big oil company here? i need someone who isnt scared!" dude this is my job, i have about 30 files against oil companies at a given time

RCR was in CCAA. But that doesn’t mean either RCR, nor the government officials, not the other creditors were without options.

You seem to think tough negotiation is about winning and losing. It’s not. Murray presses any advantage but he also seeks solutions to problems. He ended up selling a bunch of RCR properties back to Locke, so he made money at both ends.

I haven’t seen anyone suggest Edwards will run circles around the city. I’ve seen people suggest, rightly so, that he is tough in negotiations.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://twitter.com/user/status/1382849975336439817

Lol great video, I said all of this in a comment yesterday!

[powderjunkie]

Sigh.

Murray relocating the Flanes would cost $150-200M. Are they getting a deal that much better somewhere else and also be as lucrative a market as Calgary?

No.

HOU is out. Toyota centre is already 18 years old and they aren’t getting sweetheart terms as a tenant.

QUE has ownership that wants to buy.

No other city comes close to CGY as a market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Monahammer]

There's nowhere for the flames to go fellas. Please, present a valid option and I will change my tune but there's no one looking for an NHL franchise right now that is feasible to get one.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't disagree. I was responding to the claim that there was no relocation threat. There was, the Flames made it themselves.

It just wasnt realistically credible and I think everybody knew it.

Its always a little sad to me when they go to that well.

"Aw...honey....nobody believes you."

At the end of the day though, I think this is just dealing with the astronomical rise in the cost of raw construction materials.

[sfpipes]

Originally Posted by Mull

You didn't address my point, only stated people can be blinded, but failed to explain why there was anything wrong with my key point as I did with the other poster. If I am blind, address my point and provide evidence.

I think that's why the other poster said you had a long post about nothing, but I can't read their mind.

I wasn't really trying to address your point specifically. That's why I stated that it had nothing to do with you personally. I definitely was not trying to dismiss your point or state that it was wrong. So I'm sorry if it came across that way.
I just found your post to be a jumping point for my thought. I just find that the last chunk of pages on this topic has been people on either side of the issue stuck in their pre-conceived notions and talking in circles. No one opinion is inherently wrong, just different and for some quite set in stone.
If it was ultimately a long post about nothing, then sorry for that. But I don't think I'm the only one guilty of that around these parts.

[troutman]

Bettman would never allow them to leave without giving a first opportunity to local buyers to buy the team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

There's nowhere for the flames to go fellas. Please, present a valid option and I will change my tune but there's no one looking for an NHL franchise right now that is feasible to get one.

Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta says he hasn’t given up on his dream to bring an NHL team to Houston.

“There’s not a month that goes by that we don’t have some type of talks about the NHL,” he said in a radio interview with Houston Matters on Monday. “And it’s definitely something that one day I look forward to bringing to Houston, Texas.”

Now that was about 18 months ago, but why would he still not want a second franchise in the same arena?
.

LOL.