The Derek Chauvin trial is underway..GUILTY on all charges

[8 Ball]

I couldn’t imagine having a job that required me to chase armed suspects down back alleyways at 3:00am in a city that records over 700 murders a year. I wonder what the hiring status is there for police?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

If you were and ever encountered an active shooter you'd likely be dead. But hey, since you're not a police officer who cares if they have to get shot at before they are allowed to shoot back.

Okay...?

I never said I don't care. Just understanding it as a reality of a job dealing in people who might be shooting at you...

I appreciate anyone with the guts to be doing that job. I think they should receive better training and better pay. But I also think the standard of people who are allowed to carry and potentially use guns as part of their profession has to be high. There should be a bigger investment in the education of this profession.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

See bolded

At what point does "committing a crime" become egregious enough to warrant being shot? No I don't think someone high on drugs and waving a gun deserves to be shot, not until they've hurt someone else. Even then, it's definitely not the best result. Of course they might be, but I don't think they should be.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

Which means he wasn’t armed...

The police were responding to "shots fired", so I think they assumed he was armed. I don't know if the police actually saw a gun or not, or saw him drop one, but I think it was reasonable to assume he was armed given the nature of the call.

When I read the headline, I thought it was like a Charles Kinsey situation, but this is a little different. I can see the heat of the moment coming into play here. I don't know what the officer was thinking when it happened, but I don't think it's unreasonable that he may have been afraid for his life. I understand it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially when it is a minority that is shot, and that's fair too.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Coach

At what point does "committing a crime" become egregious enough to warrant being shot? No I don't think someone high on drugs and waving a gun deserves to be shot, not until they've hurt someone else. Even then, it's definitely not the best result. Of course they might be, but I don't think they should be.

Damn. Not only do you think a police officer should only be allowed to use deadly force if deadly force is first used against them, a innocent person has to be harmed before a person waving a weapon around can be neutralized.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

Damn. Not only do you think a police officer should only be allowed to use deadly force if deadly force is first used against them, a innocent person has to be harmed before a person waving a weapon around can be neutralized.

Is this a minority report pre-crime world we have going on here? Yes, unfortunately in order to punish crime, crime has to be committed.

I guess we're just going to have to disagree. Yes I do think deadly force has to be attempted before being responded with, and yes, unfortunately some police officers get injured or killed in the line of duty. I don't think that gives them the right to execute people in the street for non-violent, unproven or potential crimes.

I can't believe how easily this gets shrugged away as "Well, I can see how the officer was jumpy." What? Jumpy? They SHOT him. If flinching=firing your gun, yeah I'm not comfortable with that person being a police officer in my community.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Did the usual suspects say an unarmed kid should be killed by police? No, they didn't. No one said that. Thanks for the implication though, boy.

Did the usual suspects dump on someone for having a horrible idea that police must be in a position to die before they can defend themselves?

Yeah, we did.

If you say so.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Can you provide everyone with this list?

No. Make your own lists. Do it as a fun craft with the kids. List of favourite movies, favourite posters on the internet, whatever you want! Could be a new hobby for you. (Be sure to put me as #1)

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Not to pick fly $hit out of pepper, but he WAS armed literally milliseconds prior to him being shot. I’m not condoning what happened but let’s stick to the facts and not fabrications.

Fair enough, though saying he was unarmed is hardly a fabrication when he was unarmed by the time he turned around. I guess I wonder, if someone is running away and they have a gun, is that just a death sentence? Like is there no honest way out of that situation where you’re not looking at a bullet in the back or the chest? I think the officer made the wrong call, but it’s at least believable why he made it. Same with the kid, you’re 13, you’re running. Something clicks in your brain and you toss the gun and turn around. But you’re dead anyway. That doesn’t seem right, but maybe it’s just the way it is.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Coach

Is this a minority report pre-crime world we have going on here? Yes, unfortunately in order to punish crime, crime has to be committed.

The problem is you don't understand what a crime is.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

The problem is you don't understand what a crime is.

I do. I just think very few deserve a death sentence.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Coach

I do. I just think very few deserve a death sentence.

If someone waved a gun in your face would you be okay with them shooting you before law enforcement could take action?

[transplant99]

Body cam footage of all officers at that scene.

https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2021-1112/

[transplant99]

No. Make your own lists. Do it as a fun craft with the kids. List of favourite movies, favourite posters on the internet, whatever you want! Could be a new hobby for you. (Be sure to put me as #1)

No that's not how it works.

You made a claim. Back it up.

Who are the "usual suspects"?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

If someone waved a gun in your face would you be okay with them shooting you before law enforcement could take action?

I'm okay with the idea that as a citizen of a free nation I can possibly have a crime committed against me, maybe even killed, for which the punishment is not death.

Fortunately no one's ever had a gun in my face as a tend to avoid that type of thing if I can, so I'm not sure how I would react. In my opinion, a police officer should have some idea of how to react when faced with a gun, or at least have a better response than an average citizen.

Either way, the drugged up guy waving a gun is an extreme example made to point out that EVEN then it's dubious to use deadly force. It's not what happened here.

I'm sure we can at least both agree that the active community suppression is what leads to the circumstance of a child carrying guns in the street in the first place, and is the real sickness that needs to be corrected. But I just think the excuses for ending a persons life should be extremely limited and avoided as best as possible, even if faced with potential harm on the part of an officer, yes. I do believe that putting themselves in harms way when trouble starts is exactly what their job is. That doesn't mean I have a callous indifference to their safety.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Coach

That doesn't mean I have a callous indifference to their safety.

You've made it crystal clear how much you care about anyone in law enforcement.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No that's not how it works.

You made a claim. Back it up.

Who are the "usual suspects"?

Not how what works? The internet? You making a play for boss of arguing on the internet? Good luck man I don’t think you’re qualified but you can use me as a reference.

Normally people don’t have to “back up” commentary on what *is happening* in the thread at *that moment* which can be read by *literally anyone.* Hell one of the people even replied with a “oh hey you’re referring to me but you’re wrong, boy!” If PaperBagger can catch it I like your chances, too.

Maybe try giving the thread you’re in a read. This does not bode well for your boss of the internet application. Studies show a 78% reduction in success when applications don’t read the job description.

[zamler]

Are you ever not a complete #### head to everyone?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No that's not how it works.

You made a claim. Back it up.

Who are the "usual suspects"?

No no no, Pepsi deals in platitudes without accountability. Its who that simple but well spoken boy is.

Thats why I enjoy him, he's a well trained dog just begging to come out with the simplest coaxing

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

You've made it crystal clear how much you care about anyone in law enforcement.

Lol alright.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

No no no, Pepsi deals in platitudes without accountability. Its who that simple but well spoken boy is.

Thats why I enjoy him, he's a well trained dog just begging to come out with the simplest coaxing

You know, I sense a lot of anger here but I see that sneaky compliment. I have a feeling a beautiful friendship is in our future.

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Coach

I'm okay with the idea that as a citizen of a free nation I can possibly have a crime committed against me, maybe even killed, for which the punishment is not death.

Fortunately no one's ever had a gun in my face as a tend to avoid that type of thing if I can, so I'm not sure how I would react. In my opinion, a police officer should have some idea of how to react when faced with a gun, or at least have a better response than an average citizen.

Either way, the drugged up guy waving a gun is an extreme example made to point out that EVEN then it's dubious to use deadly force. It's not what happened here.

I'm sure we can at least both agree that the active community suppression is what leads to the circumstance of a child carrying guns in the street in the first place, and is the real sickness that needs to be corrected. But I just think the excuses for ending a persons life should be extremely limited and avoided as best as possible, even if faced with potential harm on the part of an officer, yes. I do believe that putting themselves in harms way when trouble starts is exactly what their job is. That doesn't mean I have a callous indifference to their safety.

That's some impressive tap dancing!!!