[Trade] Taylor Hall (50% retained) and Lazar traded to BOS for Anders Bjork and a 2nd

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by transplant99

For those that were panning Adams for the return on Hall (looking at you Boomer, Pinder, and Rhett)



https://theathletic.com/2515282/2021...-go-from-here/

That's bad GMing...Hall would have gone anywhere you told him to. He had 10s of millions riding on this. No one is giving him a good contract based on his production in Buffalo, so he is as vested in going to a playoff team as Buffalo is in maximizing return.

Classic case of a rookie GM mistake convincing yourself you did the right thing when it was clearly wrong.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You still can blame the GM for the overall approach. He basically let Hall find out who was interested and that opened the door for Hall to pick and choose. Once Hall found out Boston was in the mix, he deliberately narrowed the field to Boston.

Hall already said he was willing to be traded. So IMO they could have gone out, negotiated the best realistic deal (eg not Edmonton), and then put it to Hall. Let’s say Vegas offered something better. If Hall doesn’t know for sure Boston is offering something, does he say no to Vegas?

Now, maybe there was a handshake at the time of Hall’s UFA signing where they said Hall would be a full participant in any talks, so that would be different I guess.

So, basically, trick him so you get a better deal.

That would eventually come out. Good luck in signing UFA’s after that.

That might be your last better deal.


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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, basically, trick him so you get a better deal.

That would eventually come out. Good luck in signing UFA’s after that.

That might be your last better deal.


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Not at all. How is taking him the best deal you could negotiate "tricking him"? You just don't have to hand him all the cards. His right is simple - he can veto a trade. he can still do that. He doesn't have the right to be in on all negotiations leading to that stage.

This is the same error Feaster made with Iginla.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mull

Is this how you would conduct business in the real world?

Hall ask Buffalos what offers/interest they have received. You suggest Buffalo lies to Hall and states only Vegas but not Boston?

What happens when Hall is a FA and the Boston GM ask Hall why he didn't take the Boston offer and Hall informs him he never heard of it. You don't think the Buffalo GM at that point would be considered a man of no integrity?

It's not a lie. You don't have to say "this is the only deal". You say "this is the deal we want to accept - we talked to others and we didn't like their offer".

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not at all. How is taking him the best deal you could negotiate "tricking him"? You just don't have to hand him all the cards. His right is simple - he can veto a trade. he can still do that. He doesn't have the right to be in on all negotiations leading to that stage.

This is the same error Feaster made with Iginla.

Yeah but his agent isn't dumb. They have rough ideas about who is interested in their clients or not. Even if they were presented with one option, they would be like, okay what about the other teams.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Yeah but his agent isn't dumb. They have rough ideas about who is interested in their clients or not. Even if they were presented with one option, they would be like, okay what about the other teams.

Fair enough, but you don't have to hand it to him on a silver platter. And who knows, he hears Vegas, he may get interested.

Like with Iginla. We know he had no objections to Boston - he ended up there a year later. So if their deal was better, just say to Iggy: would you waive for Boston - we have a good deal proposal.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Fair enough, but you don't have to hand it to him on a silver platter. And who knows, he hears Vegas, he may get interested.

Like with Iginla. We know he had no objections to Boston - he ended up there a year later. So if their deal was better, just say to Iggy: would you waive for Boston - we have a good deal proposal.

This is different, Hall doesn’t owe them anything. They threw him a good paycheque for one season, knowing full well that half the idea of signing him would be to obtain assets in dealing him at the deadline if they weren’t gonna make the playoffs.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

This is different, Hall doesn’t owe them anything. They threw him a good paycheque for one season, knowing full well that half the idea of signing him would be to obtain assets in dealing him at the deadline if they weren’t gonna make the playoffs.

And they don't owe him anything. Make a deal, ask him to waive. He does or he doesn't. Let him roll the dice on getting to go to Boston (though I think Vegas has a better chance at the finals). I just think this could have been handled better.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And they don't owe him anything. Make a deal, ask him to waive. He does or he doesn't. Let him roll the dice on getting to go to Boston (though I think Vegas has a better chance at the finals). I just think this could have been handled better.

You actually have no idea how it was handled.

You seem to think that everyone involved is a moron.

Of course the agent will ask about other deals.

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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You actually have no idea how it was handled.

You seem to think that everyone involved is a moron.

Of course the agent will ask about other deals.

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I hav some idea because it’s been reported. And I just think there’s better strategy. You seem to think everyone had no options.

The agent isn’t entitled to know details of other deals.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And they don't owe him anything. Make a deal, ask him to waive. He does or he doesn't. Let him roll the dice on getting to go to Boston (though I think Vegas has a better chance at the finals). I just think this could have been handled better.

Do you have some special super secret inside information on how it was actually handled? on what did or didn't really happen? Do you know what Adams tried or didn't try?

No?

Thought so.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Do you have some special super secret inside information on how it was actually handled? on what did or didn't really happen? Do you know what Adams tried or didn't try?

No?

Thought so.

As I said, it’s been pretty well reported.

Do you know any better that he tried a better approach? No? Thought so.

[SuperMatt18]

I actually think Buffalo could have played hardball here too.

Hall has had a terrible season and a strong end of season and playoffs is going to be needed for him to get a better contract offer next year.

If you’re have a better offer from another team tell him accept the deal to his team, or he can spend the rest of the year on the bench in Buffalo.

Almost a game of chicken and Buffalo seemed to be the one that blinked first here.

In the end Hall probably excepts because playing meaningful hockey for the next month or two at all is probably more important to him than being able to pick his spot at this point.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I actually think Buffalo could have played hardball here too.

Hall has had a terrible season and a strong end of season and playoffs is going to be needed for him to get a better contract offer next year.

If you’re have a better offer from another team tell him accept the deal to his team, or he can spend the rest of the year on the bench in Buffalo.

Almost a game of chicken and Buffalo seemed to be the one that blinked first here.

In the end Hall probably excepts because playing meaningful hockey for the next month or two at all is probably more important to him than being able to pick his spot at this point.

Hall had already said, before any team made offers, that he was willing to waive. Then, once he heard Boston was involved, he told Buffalo it was only Boston he’d waive for. I just think there was a way to avoid that. One of which is just what you said. Get your best deal, then tell Hall that it’s that deal you want to do. See if he waives.

I forget what Boston offered for Iggy, but IIRC it was better than the Pittsburgh offer.

[sureLoss]

Hall could have played hardball and had a nuclear option.

All Hall had to do to undermine Buffalo's trade talks was to let it leak he would waive for Boston only and no other team.

Then the Sabres would have no leverage in any trade negotiations.

Hall didn't have to keep quiet and pretend he would consider other teams and allow the Sabres to drive up trade value by playing other teams against each other.

Of course that could lead to the Sabres not trading him, but that is a lose lose scenario for both parties.

This is the middle ground where Hall gets what he wants and the Sabres get something.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Hall could have played hardball and had a nuclear option.

All Hall had to do to undermine Buffalo's trade talks was to let it leak he would waive for Boston only and no other team.

Then the Sabres would have no leverage in any trade negotiations.

Hall didn't have to keep quiet and pretend he would consider other teams and allow the Sabres to drive up trade value by playing other teams against each other.

Of course that could lead to the Sabres not trading him, but that is a lose lose scenario for both parties.

This is the middle ground where Hall gets what he wants and the Sabres get something.

The problem is Hall had already said publicly he’d waive, and not just for Boston. His “only Boston” stance only arose when Boston was one of the players.

I tend to think both sides had crap hands, so naturally the outcome wasn’t ideal. But I find it pretty hard to believe that if they go to him with a Vegas option, he doesn’t at least think pretty hard about it. Really his priorities are: cup chances and stat padding for the next contract. Vegas has at least as good an opportunity for that, compared with playing with Kreji. I think Vegas’ road to a cup may be slightly easier too. I’m not sure if Hall is that strategic a thinker though.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The problem is Hall had already said publicly he’d waive, and not just for Boston. His “only Boston” stance only arose when Boston was one of the players.

I tend to think both sides had crap hands, so naturally the outcome wasn’t ideal. But I find it pretty hard to believe that if they go to him with a Vegas option, he doesn’t at least think pretty hard about it. Really his priorities are: cup chances and stat padding for the next contract. Vegas has at least as good an opportunity for that, compared with playing with Kreji. I think Vegas’ road to a cup may be slightly easier too. I’m not sure if Hall is that strategic a thinker though.

And he had every right to do this. He had an NMC, not a NTC.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The problem is Hall had already said publicly he’d waive, and not just for Boston. His “only Boston” stance only arose when Boston was one of the players.

In a Business where a GM can go from "I am not trading PK Subban" to "We traded PK Subban" a few weeks later, this is not a problem.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Hall could have played hardball and had a nuclear option.

All Hall had to do to undermine Buffalo's trade talks was to let it leak he would waive for Boston only and no other team.

Then the Sabres would have no leverage in any trade negotiations.

Hall didn't have to keep quiet and pretend he would consider other teams and allow the Sabres to drive up trade value by playing other teams against each other.

Of course that could lead to the Sabres not trading him, but that is a lose lose scenario for both parties.

This is the middle ground where Hall gets what he wants and the Sabres get something.

It's almost like a prisoner's dilemma scenario. Work with Hall to get what's best for both teams (Hall going to his team of choice, Buffalo getting something back, both win). If not, then the scenarios would be Buffalo getting a better return but Hall going to team that's not his first choice (Buffalo wins, Hall loses), Hall's agent leaking to the media that he's only interested in going to Boston, and bringing his trade value down (Hall wins, Buffalo loses), or Hall doesn't get traded (both lose).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

And he had every right to do this. He had an NMC, not a NTC.

Yup. And you can make him choose to exercise it or not. What you aren’t required to do is let him in on all negotiations leading to that point. It’s a guessing game, but an informed one given his motivations.