There's nothing wrong with a told ya so post, as long as the reasoning behind it is sound and the facts behind it are correct. In the case of Gio, people were trying to use his offensive production as a counter point to my argument that he hasn't been playing well enough this year, on the whole, to either thrust his team into a playoffs spot or justify his cap hit. Does he lead the team's defensemen in points? Yes, he does. But he's currently 31st in the NHL among defensemen in points, and his GA/60 this year leaves quite a bit to be desired.
So was his goal today some kind of "told ya so". No, it isn't. Neither are his career numbers - they're an indication of the player he was, not the player he is.
No one was countering your “reasonable” argument. They were countering “Gio is so done”.
But your argument about salary versus points is specious. Does a player need to justify his cap hit in each and every year or is it a question of justifying the cap hit on average over the life of the contract? He may be underperforming it this year, but he overperformed it two years ago, and more often than not.
Plus, you are including a bunch of guys on RFA and ELC contracts. If you compare Gio to guys who signed UFA deals, he’s much more comparable. He has more points than the guy making $1M more than him on the other team tonight, or Subban, or Pietrangelo, OEL, Karlsson, Trouba, Spurgeon, Vlasic, McDonough, Falk, and of course Seabrook. He is the 15th highest UFA status defenceman deal signed. He’s the 13th highest point getter out of those players. All while being tied with Keith for the oldest active Dman in the league.
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Ah so you are the great judger of what is a valid "told ya so" post?
In my view the situations are very similar. People prematurely writing off someone. Sutter or Gio.
Gio hasn't played well this year but
- He's played much better of late
- He's still one of the Flames top 4 dmen
He's also a guy I would not write off. Not a guy who had to go all the way to Russia to show what he could do. Not the guy that went undrafted and would go on to win the Norris trophy. Nope not him.
Moreover, I could pull dozens and dozens of posts from this season that range from be an exaggeration of his bad play to down right disrespectful given what he's done for this franchise. Stuff like he should be scratched, have the C stripped, or that him continuing to play is a sign of the lack of accountability.
So yeah maybe some of the people that said he was "done" deserve a little bit of TYS.
I just find it hypocritical that you would blast folks about Gio in the GT then go back and pull a random post from a frustrated poster after a bad game about Sutter - because of a modest 3 game winning streak.
Dish it. Take it.
It's not the same. Not even close. My point is (and always has been) that Gio hasn't been playing anywhere close to the level that his cap hit would suggest he should be playing at. I never said anything about scratching him or stripping him of the C.
Compare that to aforementioned poster who was quick to give players credit for this 3 game win streak, but wouldn't give Sutter any credit for it (until he was indirectly called out). No "I retract my previous statement about Sutter" or anything similar has been said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Spoiler!
No one was countering your “reasonable” argument. They were countering “Gio is so done”.
But your argument about salary versus points is specious. Does a player need to justify his cap hit in each and every year or is it a question of justifying the cap hit on average over the life of the contract? He may be underperforming it this year, but he overperformed it two years ago, and more often than not.
Plus, you are including a bunch of guys on RFA and ELC contracts. If you compare Gio to guys who signed UFA deals, he’s much more comparable. He has more points than the guy making $1M more than him on the other team tonight, or Subban, or Pietrangelo, OEL, Karlsson, Trouba, Spurgeon, Vlasic, McDonough, Falk, and of course Seabrook. He is the 15th highest UFA status defenceman deal signed. He’s the 13th highest point getter out of those players. All while being tied with Keith for the oldest active Dman in the league.
For a defenseman, defensive play is the primary consideration, points are a secondary consideration. I hadn't made a points argument, I merely pushed back against the points argument others were making.
I think it started with a single tweet by a Montreal writer after the last time we beat them. I guess to them if they lose its boring.
I don't mind people calling it boring, but it's annoying when they describe the style all wrong. So many commentators and fans see offence being stifled and automatically fall back on the "clogging up the middle" trope and they're usually wrong.
Every team will trap in the neutral zone if their opponents are in full control of the puck like on a dump and change. Outside of that, Sutter has the Flames forechecking with two forwards and chasing behind the net. Could not be more different than a neutral zone trap. Drives me crazy hearing people describe something we are all watching so wrong.
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I don't mind people calling it boring, but it's annoying when they describe the style all wrong. So many commentators and fans see offence being stifled and automatically fall back on the "clogging up the middle" trope and they're usually wrong.
Every team will trap in the neutral zone if their opponents are in full control of the puck like on a dump and change. Outside of that, Sutter has the Flames forechecking with two forwards and chasing behind the net. Could not be more different than a neutral zone trap. Drives me crazy hearing people describe something we are all watching so wrong.
Garry Galley noticed them ringing around the boards a few times, when that is a tool in the toolbox that was used way tonight than in many recent games
Is this the turnaround? Sure seems like it. Maybe it is just a blip on the screen, and the Flames will return to their maddeningly inconsistent and mediocre ways.
I am hopeful this is the turn around.
I will say this - this team finally looks like it can play with pace again. Say what you will about Hartley being a terrible coach - maybe he was a terrible person, but he knew one thing - a team has to play with some pace and out-work the other team. His rosters were crap, so of course they weren't going to out-play the opposition most nights.
This last set of games is reminding me of that team in a number of ways. They have looked better on the rush, and better at making passes and plays at higher speed.
I remember one thing that Hartley used to push is "Be very fit" in order to play his style. Sutter commented on this a week or two ago, pondering if the players weren't executing well because they simply couldn't keep up with the other teams physically, and getting too tired. For anyone that has trained, you will know that it takes time to ramp up. Is this the point where they are ramped up?
Giordano - I think he has been looking all young and fresh lately. Fight me, but I think he has been the best and most consistent defencemen for a stretch of games now.
Gaudreau - he is lethal when this team is playing with pace - always has been. When the team (including him) are playing slow, he doesn't have many options. Dumping the puck in became a decent option after he made a button-hook and couldn't find an open man. The team playing with more speed is opening up options for him, and I bet he is going to accumulate a bunch of points from now until the end of the season. It seems that the team overall is dumping the puck less with this increased pace, as it is giving them more options. Anyone else started to notice this? At any rate, I would bet that Gaudreau isn't going to stand out like a sore thumb in this system - he is going to be one of the primary beneficiaries.
Markstrom - He was damn elite when at the start of the season, and I think that the Flames won a lot of those games on his back. I didn't think that the Flames looked good to start the season. They had Markstrom and they had a red-hot powerplay, and together this allowed them to 'steal' games I thought. Markstrom's save percentage really took a hit for a while, and he just hasn't looked like a great goalie - I argue he hasn't looked like a bona fide starter. He has looked capable. He hasn't been terrible, but he hasn't looked like the goalie that he seemed to be. He is returning to form. Was it an injury? Maybe - it was a lingering issue that is starting to clear up. I also think that it may be a bit of Oileritis. I thought Dubynk was a good young goalie, but then he just became worse and worse. After he left Edmonton, he slowly got better, than became great. There was an article that came out explaining some of it - he was over-compensating for how terrible the Oilers were defensively, that he ended up picking bad habits. When a goalie stops trusting the players in front of them, it can often lead to bad habits - cheating on the posts because you are afraid your defence isn't going to cover the guy on the other side of the net. Stuff like that. I felt that Markstrom was being overplayed, and the Flames weren't giving him the run support while also leaving him hung out to dry way too many times. Now that they have been better lately, Markstrom has looked good without needing to be elite, but I bet he will track back to being elite (and I think he is looking much better again).
Exciting times again. Playoffs can actually be a thing again. This sure beats looking up who the best draft eligible players are and hoping they win the lottery. They are starting to track really well and are starting to look good - underlying metrics are matching-up with the eye tests.
Hope they keep this up!
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Great win! Team looks more solid than ever these past few games. Do I think they will make the playoffs? Nope. But it also wouldn't surprise me if Sutter pulls off a miracle because he's probably the one active coach in the entire league who can do so with this bunch.
Hoping for the best, expecting the worst, but enjoying the ride these past few games!
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