Real estate in Calgary - another bubble?

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Robotic

Was hoping to share just the gif and not the link to reddit. But I don’t know how. Was interesting in housing prices compared to the rest of the world.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeaut...tm_name=iossmf

I’d love to see where Austraila fits in there compared to Canada.

[Fuzz]

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/housing-index

[stampsx2]

Canada’s economy has little to recover on. 46% of our gdp is from real estate. There’s not much the boc can do at this point but then this article below:

(Not sure how to properly embed an article)

Boc governor see’s worrying signs in the Canadian real estate market:

The Bank of Canada is seeing “worrying” signs that some Canadians are taking on too much debt to buy into the nation’s hot housing market.
In an interview with the Financial Post, Governor Tiff Macklem said there is evidence that loan levels relative to home values are growing -- an indication that some borrowers could be overextending. He also warned people have begun to make purchases based on the belief prices will continue rising.

“Canadians are stretching and that is worrying.” Macklem said. “If Canadians are basing their decisions on the kinds of price increases that we’ve seen recently are going to continue indefinitely, that would be a mistake. They’re not sustainable.”
At the same time, Macklem indicated the central bank can do little given interest rates need to stay low to support the recovery.
His comments come amid increasingly urgent calls from economists for policy makers to cool the market. Over the past week, the Bank of Montreal’s Robert Kavcic and Robert Hogue at Royal Bank of Canada have issued reports warning officials they need to take steps to break the psychology of expecting continued gains in real estate. The ultimate concern is that rapid price appreciation could be destabilizing.

Among policies being suggested are taxes targeting speculators like the one implemented in New Zealand this month, or an end to the longstanding and popular tax exemption for capital gains on primary residences. Another idea getting attention is the elimination of blind bidding for homes that some analysts say unnecessarily inflates prices.
Both Kavcic and Hogue also identified a lack of housing supply as a major driver of the recent run up in home values.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government plans to introduce a tax on foreign non-resident home owners. Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland said last week she is watching the market closely, without detailing any specific intent to take additional action.
Last week, Canada’s national housing agency added three more cities to its list of markets highly vulnerable to a sharp price drop, including Toronto. Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. also said the recent broad-based price appreciation means overheating risks are now a national phenomenon, rather than isolated to a few major metropolitan areas.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bnnb...84978.amp.html

[jwslam]

Listed my $400-$500k range starter home in a burb community.

24hrs online; 17 showings booked. Looks like I won't make it to the weekend.
The first guy that saw it came in $20k over list but only gave me 4 hours to accept; would've considered it he came in zero conditions

[Mull]

Originally Posted by jwslam

Listed my $400-$500k range starter home in a burb community.

24hrs online; 17 showings booked. Looks like I won't make it to the weekend.
The first guy that saw it came in $20k over list but only gave me 4 hours to accept; would've considered it he came in zero conditions

With that many booking still to see the place, I would of potentially shoot my own foot and told the guy to get lost, not interested in doing business with him.

Being pressured to make a transaction has a place, but when the cards appear to be all in my hands, I lean to spitefulness when someone tries the pressure tactic on me. I am not always the smartest in negotiations I guess!

[Ozy_Flame]

Wow the nerve of that potential buyer. I hope he knew 16 others were lined up to look and he can take a hike.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Mull

With that many booking still to see the place, I would of potentially shoot my own foot and told the guy to get lost, not interested in doing business with him.

Being pressured to make a transaction has a place, but when the cards appear to be all in my hands, I lean to spitefulness when someone tries the pressure tactic on me. I am not always the smartest in negotiations I guess!

How would the buyer know or care what cards the seller is holding? Seems like ok negotiating to me to give a sweetener of $20K above asking with the condition the clock is ticking. If I look at it from the buyer's perspective, it's take it or I look at something else.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Mull

With that many booking still to see the place, I would of potentially shoot my own foot and told the guy to get lost, not interested in doing business with him.

Being pressured to make a transaction has a place, but when the cards appear to be all in my hands, I lean to spitefulness when someone tries the pressure tactic on me. I am not always the smartest in negotiations I guess!

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Wow the nerve of that potential buyer. I hope he knew 16 others were lined up to look and he can take a hike.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

How would the buyer know or care what cards the seller is holding? Seems like ok negotiating to me to give a sweetener of $20K above asking with the condition the clock is ticking. If I look at it from the buyer's perspective, it's take it or I look at something else.

As I said, if he came in zero conditions, I would consider it.
But if he says pending financing and inspection, sounds like someone who comes back a week later and says inspection said xxx so I want $5k for that, and then xxxx so $10k for that etc., so new offer is now 20 under list. Or when his financing falls out and now he walks away scott free

Too late to tell him to #### off as my DOM is now up and interest on the house is down.

[troutman]

Most offers will have those two conditions.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

How would the buyer know or care what cards the seller is holding? Seems like ok negotiating to me to give a sweetener of $20K above asking with the condition the clock is ticking. If I look at it from the buyer's perspective, it's take it or I look at something else.

It doesn't matter if they know or not, my reaction is to their attempt at a pressure tactic , which is exactly what it is. Its not so the buyer can save their time and move on- 6 hours compared to 24 hours in the grand scheme of house buying?

Its so the seller has a visceral reaction and perhaps looses some rational perspective and then the buyer gets perhaps a better deal.

That is what pressure selling/buying does to the other party. Rational the tactic with any other number of reasons you want, but this is the intent.

That doesn't mean if I was the seller I wouldn't consider accepting an offer from any pressure tactic, but it does mean that if the cards in were in my hands, as this seller has, I would assume I am not thinking rationally towards this buyer and therefore could not trust myself to enter into an agreement with them, really no matter the price.

Hence, tell them to get lost, too much to risk.

[Hockeyguy15]

Or it sounds like a buyer who didn't want to be strung along in a hot market. If buyers are moving quick and places are getting snatched up quick I can see why they wanted a quick answer.

[Ozy_Flame]

Inspection requests are not unreasonable. Giving you four hours to say yes or no is - at least for the seller.

In Toronto most bids are now unconditional - if you make it dependent on financing and inspections, you're going to lose which is just jaw-dropping to me.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

How would the buyer know or care what cards the seller is holding? Seems like ok negotiating to me to give a sweetener of $20K above asking with the condition the clock is ticking. If I look at it from the buyer's perspective, it's take it or I look at something else.

Yeah, I don't get what the others are complaining about. That buyer doesn't know there's 16 people behind him, but he probably knows there are others behind him. He's either desperate or just wanting a smooth transaction.

If it were me, I'd be a little wary of someone aggressive like that, so I'd probably say that he was the first to look at the place and I have 16 others lined up. But if he does $60K over the list rather than $20K, I'd accept (200% more than his amount over asking basically as a "go away" counter offer). If he accepts, I'd walk away absolutely stunned and excited about such an amazing windfall.

This is house buying. Courtesy is a bit different because if you weren't the winning bid, you're still looking for a house. With what I am hearing about the cost of materials and people trying to upgrade/downgrade simultaneously, I can kinda see why maybe that prospective buyer did that if he had another place he was also interested in.

[Table 5]

Yeah, I'm not sure why some are offended by that offer, I thought it was pretty fair. In the end, this is all just a business transaction, there's no need to take everything personally.

Back when the rental market was hot, we had a lot of people interested in our place. While trying to decide between tenants, one guy called me up from Vancouver and offered to pay a whole year up front. The risk was that I never had a chance to see him in person. But, the sweetener more than made up for it, so boom, done.

[jwslam]

Agree inspection is not unreasonable, but the fact that he can offer high up front to lock me from speaking to other buyers, then come back to nickel and dime scares me.


Financing though, and then having that fall through with zero repercussion is unreasonable. I didn't follow up on whether they would lose their deposit in that case. I guess with a decent non-returnable deposit I could accept the risk on the financing line.

[CroFlames]

I sold a house in Aug 2020 and it was not easy and I lost money. I thought the economy would continue to be pessimistic, yet here we are.

Probably could have had an extra $25k kicking around. Alas.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Inspection requests are not unreasonable. Giving you four hours to say yes or no is - at least for the seller.

In Toronto most bids are now unconditional - if you make it dependent on financing and inspections, you're going to lose which is just jaw-dropping to me.

How is giving 4 hours unreasonable? 4 hours to accept seems pretty reasonable to me if there's a decent sweetener involved and very little conditions. It's not like the buyer demanded that possession date be in 4 hours.

I mean, when was the last time some of you guys went house hunting? It's stressful AF, especially if you lose a bid or two/have a house pulled off the market before you can throw a bid in. You could end up looking at like 20-30 houses and see nothing you like, then suddenly see two or three finalist candidates on the same day. Also, you want to know that day whether you can hunker down and start filing paper work, or if you're going to keep looking at houses the next day. Why the hell would you want to wait 4 days vs 4 hours so you know what to do the next day and for everyone else to look at the place and potentially lose it when your search might be at and end?

[burn_this_city]

That offer sounded perfectly reasonable. He fronted an extra $20k and had the typical conditions, I don't blame him for asking for acceptance in 4 hours, so he isn't strung along. He's offering the bird in hand..

[Erick Estrada]

I would take the best offer that doesn’t include a house inspection if you are lucky enough to receive one. I sold my house in less than 48 hours above asking price and with no inspection which is about as perfect a sale as you can hope for as some people will nickel and dime you if the house inspection brings up stuff like windows needing replacement, foundation cracks, gutter repairs, HVAC service, etc.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by jwslam

As I said, if he came in zero conditions, I would consider it.
But if he says pending financing and inspection, sounds like someone who comes back a week later and says inspection said xxx so I want $5k for that, and then xxxx so $10k for that etc., so new offer is now 20 under list. Or when his financing falls out and now he walks away scott free

Too late to tell him to #### off as my DOM is now up and interest on the house is down.

I mean I would have just said no to any price reduction on the inspection. Then went back to the market if needed.

Depends how quick you want to sell though and what your list was relative to the market.