Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau Appreciation thread

[tvp2003]

Right wing with 13/23:

2014-2016 - Jiri Hudler (career high points in 14/15)
2016-2018 - Micheal Ferland (career high points in 17/18)
2018-2020 - Elias Lindholm (career high points in 18/19)

2020/21 - Dominik Simon, Josh Leivo, and Brett Ritchie - combined 9 points

We can look at the contributing reasons but outside of a hot start for Johnny, this year has been a total failure for that line.

[Hanna Sniper]

Having half your top two lines undersized doesn't make sense IMO. Doesn't help the cause when one of those players is timid.

Easy night for defenders, even easier come playoff time

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Just ridiculous management by the Flames. Likelihood is they are going to be trading one if not both of these forwards in the offseason, and they've just cratered their value by playing them with 4th liners and by trying to force them into a more defensive role they just aren't suited for.

It's the Calgary Flames way.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Having half your top two lines undersized doesn't make sense IMO. Doesn't help the cause when one of those players is timid.

Easy night for defenders, even easier come playoff time

Timid?

Flat out frightened.

Its so weird too...was not that way for years. No idea what happened but hope to find out one day in the distant future.

[Inglewood Jack]

the thread title isn't "Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau as Calgary Flames Appreciation thread"...I for one plan to celebrate the magic of JG when he finally gets a fresh start with a puck controlling #1 centre and is battling Marner for best distributor from wing in the league.

I don't think Mony has a similar rebound in him unfortunately but I'd love to see him do great elsewhere as well in a more appropriate #2C role as triggerman for a couple of strong 2-way wingers.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Timid?

Flat out frightened.

Its so weird too...was not that way for years. No idea what happened but hope to find out one day in the distant future.

I was being polite

I didn't want to pile on, he has enough hate. I've noticed that fans of one targetted player are extra brutal about the other player. There is less accountability and more placing blame elsewhere in threads

Its a tough situation because we are on the eve of adding to the Dion, Savard Fox legends, wherein 5 years all we are going to hear about is how we should have kept X player

Its amazing how fragile confidence is and how contagious

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Think a big part of it has been the revolving door at RW.

Gaudreau and Monahan have played majority of the year together but they've been stapled to a 4th liner at RW for most of it.

They've played over 20 minutes with 8 different wingers:

Ritchie - 131 Minutes - 47.3% Corsi For - 0 GF - 5 GA
Bennett - 100 Minutes - 46.3% Corsi For - 4 GF - 1 GA
Simon - 58 Minutes - 47.8% Corsi For - 3 GF - 2 GA
Leivo - 57 Minutes - 47.0% Corsi For - 3 GF - 3 GA

Lindholm - 42 Minues - 51% Corsi For - 2 GF - 1 GA
Mangiapane - 29 Minutes - 56% Corsi For - 0 GF - 0 GA
Dube - 21 Minutes - 51.1% Corsi For - 1 GF - 0 GA
Tkachuk - 21 Minutes - 65.9% Corsi For - 2 GF - 0 GA

So maybe the answer is as simple as not playing your guys that are supposed to be offensive players with 4th line talents for 65% of the season. The underlying numbers and production with any of Lindholm, Mangiapane, Dube, Tkachuk have been fine, which isn't surprising because those guys are actual top 9 players, unfortunately they've played very little time with those guys and have played most of the season with one of Ritchie, Bennett, Simon, or Leivo on their wing.

Monahan and Gaudreau aren't good enough to be able to drag around waiver fodder like Ritchie and still produce offense, so it's not surprising the offesnive production dried up once Ritchie was promoted to full time RW on that line, and they haven't scored a 5v5 goal on the ice with him all season. It's ridiculous that they are still together as a line.

Just ridiculous management by the Flames. Likelihood is they are going to be trading one if not both of these forwards in the offseason, and they've just cratered their value by playing them with 4th liners and by trying to force them into a more defensive role they just aren't suited for.

Are we forgetting why the team split its top six forwards over three lines in the first place? Because the Gaudreau-Monahan line gets absolutely steamrolled against opposing top lines in the playoffs. Shift after shift. Game after game. To the point where it’s embarrassing to watch.

Gaudreau and Monahan are so one-dimensional that the whole forward lineup has to tailored to protect them. A top line of Gaudreau-Monahan- any other Flames forward has opposing coaches salivating over the matchup. I don’t see how anyone who watched the last three Flames series can think the status quo of Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm or whoever was tenable.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Are we forgetting why the team split its top six forwards over three lines in the first place? Because the Gaudreau-Monahan line gets absolutely steamrolled against opposing top lines in the playoffs. Shift after shift. Game after game. To the point where it’s embarrassing to watch.

Gaudreau and Monahan are so one-dimensional that the whole forward lineup has to tailored to protect them. A top line of Gaudreau-Monahan- any other Flames forward has opposing coaches salivating over the matchup. I don’t see how anyone who watched the last three Flames series can think the status quo of Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm or whoever was tenable.

I don't think the answer to the problem you stated is to give them an even weaker forward to play with.

No reason Dube/Mangiapane couldn't have been with 13/23 and Leivo played with 19/28 (where he actually looked good at times)

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Are we forgetting why the team split its top six forwards over three lines in the first place? Because the Gaudreau-Monahan line gets absolutely steamrolled against opposing top lines in the playoffs. Shift after shift. Game after game. To the point where it’s embarrassing to watch.

Gaudreau and Monahan are so one-dimensional that the whole forward lineup has to tailored to protect them. A top line of Gaudreau-Monahan- any other Flames forward has opposing coaches salivating over the matchup. I don’t see how anyone who watched the last three Flames series can think the status quo of Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm or whoever was tenable.

If Backlund and Tkachuk had shown up in the Colorado series we might not even be having this convo!

All of our lines got dominated in that series. It wasn't an individual line failing, and further not all of our lines have to be designed to protect Johnny and Mony. They just have to produce at a reasonable pace (especially when Johnny and Mony arent.)

Our other lines dont produce at a reasonable pace, and so we rely on Johnny and Mony to produce the vast majority of the team's offense. This is why Tre was trying to shoehorn Lindy into a 2c, more stable offensive production option outside of Johnny Mony.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If Backlund and Tkachuk had shown up in the Colorado series we might not even be having this convo!

All of our lines got dominated in that series. It wasn't an individual line failing, and further not all of our lines have to be designed to protect Johnny and Mony. They just have to produce at a reasonable pace (especially when Johnny and Mony arent.)

Our other lines dont produce at a reasonable pace, and so we rely on Johnny and Mony to produce the vast majority of the team's offense. This is why Tre was trying to shoehorn Lindy into a 2c, more stable offensive production option outside of Johnny Mony.

I agree with this, though putting Lindholm at his natural and preferred position isnt really shoehorning - in fact I think it’s what they planned when they got him (and Neal).

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree with this, though putting Lindholm at his natural and preferred position isnt really shoehorning - in fact I think it’s what they planned when they got him (and Neal).

Yes, you are probably right. The failure of the neal signing is what ultimately took the money needed to sign an adequate permanent rw option while also bringing in Lindy to center another consistent offensive threat line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yes, you are probably right. The failure of the neal signing is what ultimately took the money needed to sign an adequate permanent rw option while also bringing in Lindy to center another consistent offensive threat line.

Yup. Neal works out, you have a 20 goal RW playing with either Monahan or Lindholm, and you have Mangiapane or Dube on RW on the other line. Or maybe Bennett gets good enough to be a top 6 winger or at least frees up Ryan to be that.

Also, a longer shot, but Czarnik was brought in, I think, with designs on maybe filling a scoring role (he certainly wasn't going to be doing anything else).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yup. Neal works out, you have a 20 goal RW playing with either Monahan or Lindholm, and you have Mangiapane or Dube on RW on the other line. Or maybe Bennett gets good enough to be a top 6 winger or at least frees up Ryan to be that.

Also, a longer shot, but Czarnik was brought in, I think, with designs on maybe filling a scoring role (he certainly wasn't going to be doing anything else).

Yeah, at the time of the deal this signing was widely viewed as a sneaky-good one. I recall all sorts of optimism here as Czarnik was being positively compared to Jonathan Marchesault and William Karlsson.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, at the time of the deal this signing was widely viewed as a sneaky-good one. I recall all sorts of optimism here as Czarnik was being positively compared to Jonathan Marchesault and William Karlsson.

At the time, the Flames had Czarnik, Jankowski, Frolik, Neal, Ryan, Backlund and Bennett all of whom I think were expected to provide support scoring in varying degrees.

The next year, after getting bounced it was clear Neal was crap, and he gets replaced but not with scoring. Czarnik is done. But Frolik declined and got traded, Bennett continued to decline, Jankowski turned into a PK specialist. On the plus - Mangiapane turned a corner and Dube looked promising. And Lindholm looked like at least a RW answer.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, at the time of the deal this signing was widely viewed as a sneaky-good one. I recall all sorts of optimism here as Czarnik was being positively compared to Jonathan Marchesault and William Karlsson.

On occasion, this team has gotten guys like Huselius, Hudler and Lindholm that showed some success and further promise elsewhere and built on it here.

This is obviously not the same case for a lot of the low dollar signings

Right now as a fringe free agent, I would almost be balancing the promise of a NHL paycheque and the opportunity with the fear of whether or not this is a net detrimental professional opportunity

[Flamesfan05]

Old fad

[Iggy Snipe]

Johnny has been lights out for Calgary during the regular season for the most part. Hockey is an extremely difficult sport to be consistent in, and he has accumulated some nice overall numbers with Calgary.

Same can be said about Sean Monahan. He is top of the charts for goals scored as a new member of the the Calgary Flames along with Jarome Iginla etc for goals scored in "x" amount of games played or first seasons.

Now what can also be said about Monahan is the fact that he has lost a step. Whether or not this is due to injury or not, Monahan has not been himself in two years. Monahan is NOT a top line center in the NHL anymore, and he was borderline in his best season. He can't skate. He can't handle the puck with effectiveness. The only thing going for him was his shot, which is also not happening for him right now. He is shooting the puck very little, and he is getting very little scoring chances. Monahan has not got many scoring chances period. I don't even need to look at the stats, I know from watching the games. Monahan fits in on any roster as the second line center. I would like that for him here, but who knows what will happen.

Johnny is a goner. Any fans of his, say goodbye. Its either happening at the deadline, or in the offseason, but this is his last as a Flames. Both Calgary and Johnny needs a change of scenery. They either deal him, or lose him for nothing after next year.

[Dajazz]

Tkachuk - Backlund - Johnny
Mangiapane - Monahan - Lindholm
Dube - Bennett - Lucic
Plugs - Ryan - Plugs

It really doesn’t need to be more difficult. Each line gets a nice mix of speed & skill, 5v5 competence and zone entry as well as reasonable forechecking and defensive acumen.

Backlund isn’t a 1C but he can match up against any 1C in the league. Johnny gets help on zone entries and along the boards.

Monahan gets help on the forecheck and zone entry.

Playoff line worked in the past.

[MJK]

Sean Monahan:

I appreciate his dreamy good looks
I appreciate his luscious locks
I appreciate his rare smile and perfect white teeth
I appreciate he has scored 25+ goals in 6/7 full seasons
I appreciate he has scored 30+ 3 times
I appreciate his cap hit
I appreciate the fact that he is still young and can bring a lot to this team
I appreciate the fact that he is 3rd in scoring among his deep draft class
I appreciate the fact that he will play through pain
I appreciate the fact that he has more games played that anyone else in his draft class

I appreciate you Sean "Moneyhands" Monahan!

[Vinny01]

Both of these players have regressed and not lived up to the potential they showed 6 years ago. I am not buying this stuff about 4th liners on their wing. They were supposed to be great players and they turned out to be good to very good and at times invisible.

The thing that truly bums me out the most with this team is the 2018/19 season was such a one off as opposed of a sign of things to come.

I don’t understand how it is not universally agreed upon that the reason this rebuild failed is because our best players badly missed the ceilings they appeared to establish at a young age. When Johnny is finishing 6th in league scoring when the team sucks and he is a 22 year old sophomore the hope is he would maintain or improve on those stats at 27. Same with Monahan he was scoring 30 at 20 years old he was supposed to be a more well rounded player who pushed for 40 but his offensive game has been gone for 2 full years.