The Derek Chauvin trial is underway..GUILTY on all charges

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It came up yesterday in some context that the community/area that this happened in was not really bad for serious crime pre-murder.

Since though? One of the worst in the city.

It was something along those lines.

An autonomous zone was set up in the area. And these things rapidly descend into Mad Max dystopias.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-george-floyd/

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by troutman

Who is going to riot if Chauvin is found guilty?

I think the chances the felony murder sticks are quite slim, and that alone will guarantee riots.

[Blankcanvas]

For a taste of what the defence will probably raise and another side to the story:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/458341529

[troutman]

Firefighter Testifies: 'I Was Desperate To Help ... And This Human Was Denied That'

https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-o...as-denied-that

Hansen said, then-officer Tou Thao "said something along the lines of, 'If you really are a Minneapolis firefighter, you would know better than to get involved.' "

Her voice began to tremble when she recalled the impotence that overwhelmed her as Thao and the other officers blocked her from providing the kind of medical care she has been trained to give. "I got there and I could have given medical assistance. That's exactly what I should have done."

"Because I was desperate to help. ... Because there was a man being killed and ... had I had access to a call similar to that, I would have been able to provide medical attention to the best of my abilities. And this human was denied that," she said.

Prosecutors also played audio of a 911 call Hansen made moments after Floyd was loaded into an ambulance.

"Hello. I'm on the block of 38th and Chicago, and I literally watched police officers not take a pulse and not do anything to save a man, and I am a first responder myself, and I literally have it on video. I just happened to be on a walk," Hansen said in the call.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Blankcanvas

For a taste of what the defence will probably raise and another side to the story:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/458341529

So, in summary: George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose if we completely ignore the findings of two autopsy reports which cite subdual, constraint and neck compression as the cause; and also if we ignore the fact that Chauvin refused at several points over a 9-minute period to release his knee from Floyd's neck.

That's a pretty brazen propaganda piece.

[zamler]

What kind of a sicko do you have to be to literally let a man die and make no attempt to help. And it's even worse, they didn't just stand around and let it happen they kneed Floyd making sure. I could never be on this jury I wouldn't be objective and couldn't follow the letter of the law.

[combustiblefuel]

The top ranking police officer and the chief of the Minneapolis police have both now testified against him now. Both condemning his actions as dangerous and totally unneccessary.

The doctor who tried to save Floyd for 30 minutes after wards said it was from suffocation. He saw no signs to even remotely suspect drugs to be responsible.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

The top ranking police officer and the chief of the Minneapolis police have both now testified against him now. Both condemning his actions as dangerous and totally unneccessary.

.

I wonder if this opens the police force up to an liabilities

[troutman]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I wonder if this opens the police force up to an liabilities

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/george...ment-1.5947716

The city of Minneapolis on Friday agree to pay $27 million US to settle a civil lawsuit from George Floyd's family over the Black man's death in police custody, even as jury selection continued in a former officer's murder trial.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/george...ment-1.5947716

Thank you, now I read that my memory has been jogged.


So they cleared up their liabilities early, good. Good for the family and good for the truth.

[combustiblefuel]

The chief testified that chauvin went against many police policies which included level of force, neck restraints, deescalation, not rendering medical assistance.

The cheif also pointed out the other officers on the scene also violated police policies for not rendering aid .

[calumniate]

Independent investigator / witness (sergeant from California), testified that deadly force was used.

[FlamesAddiction]

If that was a fentanyl related death, it would be the most coincidental one ever.

I know where they are probably going to go with this. They will play up on the notion that someone with fentanyl in their system might be more susceptible to circulatory or heart conditions that would turn reasonable force under normal circumstance into a deadly situation.

It's not going to work and is just an attempt to muddy the waters. I'm not sure the science is there, but mainly the fact bystanders were pleading for him to stop and that he didn't render aid or even allow for it once it was obvious the situation was dire, makes them culpable.

[calumniate]

Catching up on today's witnesses including a renowned clinical respirologist. I may become an MD after all!

I hope this is still garnering attention.. it's super interesting to me

[troutman]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/b...egal-causation

Legal causation defined

To raise doubt about the claim that Chauvin's actions caused Floyd's death, the defense would need to give the jurors reason to think Floyd's death was an accident or was caused by something other than Chauvin's actions.

An action legally causes a harmful outcome only if it passes what is also known as the but-for test. If it is true that but for the action, the harm would not have occurred, then the action is said to be an actual cause of the harm.

An action is relevant to legal culpability only if it’s a proximate cause, which means that the action is deemed temporally and spatially close enough to the harmful outcome in an "unbroken chain of events."

A standard test of whether an action is a proximate cause is reasonable foreseeability. A harmful outcome is reasonably foreseeable if that outcome could reasonably have been predicted.

For Chauvin's actions to have caused Floyd's death, they must pass the but-for test. To determine whether they pass the but-for test, we can ask, "Is it true that Floyd would not have died when he did but for Chauvin's actions?"

It does not seem reasonable to doubt that Floyd would have died on that fatal day, had Chauvin not performed the actions he did. It seems, then, that Chauvin's actions were an actual cause of Floyd's death.

But proving actual causation does not suffice for establishing legal causation. The prosecution must also prove that Chauvin's actions were a proximate cause of Floyd's death. One way to establish that his actions were a proximate cause of Floyd's death is to show that Floyd's death could reasonably have been predicted to occur as a result of Chauvin's actions.

To determine reasonable foreseeability, we can ask, "Could Floyd's death reasonably have been predicted to occur as a result of Chauvin's actions?"

The answer, it seems, is "yes." Not only could Floyd's death reasonably have been predicted to occur, but there was, in fact, broad agreement among the prosecution's witnesses that Chauvin was going to kill Floyd. So, it is hard to see how the defense will go about raising reasonable doubt about the claim that Chauvin's actions caused Floyd's death.

[afc wimbledon]

I think the real question is if the defence is trying to raise legal reasonable doubt or whether they are, as is so often the case in these trials, just trying to give the jury a reasonable excuse to let the cop off.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think the real question is if the defence is trying to raise legal reasonable doubt or whether they are, as is so often the case in these trials, just trying to give the jury a reasonable excuse to let the cop off.

They just need to convince one juror.

Megyn Kelly had 3 defense attorneys on her show about a week ago to discuss the strategies of the defense. I thought it was an interesting discussion.

https://www.happyscribe.com/public/t...hael-belsky-ep

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think the real question is if the defence is trying to raise legal reasonable doubt or whether they are, as is so often the case in these trials, just trying to give the jury a reasonable excuse to let the cop off.

I think sometimes they try to convince the jurors that theoretical doubt = reasonable doubt. I am not sure I totally get it either. Like obviously I get it when something is theoretically possible, but practically impossible. But at what point does theoretical move into reasonable doubt territory? How does an ordinary person know what the highest standard of proof is if they are not familiar with the legal system?

I think with any jury, you stand a good chance of getting one person with the conspiracy mind set that believes something happened no matter how improbable. I know the selection process tries to weed that out, but human processes are always subject to human error.

[troutman]

Floyd died of lack of oxygen, caught in "vise" between officers and street, expert says
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates...th-2021-04-08/

"A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died as a result of what he was subjected to," Tobin said.

- expert witness Dr. Tobin

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think sometimes they try to convince the jurors that theoretical doubt = reasonable doubt. I am not sure I totally get it either. Like obviously I get it when something is theoretically possible, but practically impossible. But at what point does theoretical move into reasonable doubt territory? How does an ordinary person know what the highest standard of proof is if they are not familiar with the legal system?

I think with any jury, you stand a good chance of getting one person with the conspiracy mind set that believes something happened no matter how improbable. I know the selection process tries to weed that out, but human processes are always subject to human error.

I think sometimes, actually often, a white middle class American jury sees the police as the only thing between them and the barbarian brown and black hordes itching to rape and murder them and so doesn't really care that much if the cops are guilty they just need a fig leaf of an excuse to let them off