Brad Treliving needs to go

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Some of us have following the team long enough to see the same mistakes played out over multiple GMs. So what’s the common denominator?

Harvey.
Let’s get em!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Hopefully tree learned his lesson on using early picks on goalies. Wolf a good step in the right direction. One draft that stings is 2017. We draft Zach Fisher and D’artagnan Joly in rounds 5&6 and watch Montreal draft Cayden Primeau in round 7. Big miss there. But par for the course until wolf (hopefully)

It would seem like a lot of teams missed there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Some of us have following the team long enough to see the same mistakes played out over multiple GMs. So what’s the common denominator?

That's just it. I've been a Flame fan since the beginning. I was a young kid that loves collecting O-Pee-Chee hockey cards, and was pumped when a team was coming to Calgary. Been a Flame fan since. I've watched mediocrity for almost the whole time with many different GMs. So many mistakes. What is the common denominator indeed.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Yobbo

That's just it. I've been a Flame fan since the beginning. I was a young kid that loves collecting O-Pee-Chee hockey cards, and was pumped when a team was coming to Calgary. Been a Flame fan since. I've watched mediocrity for almost the whole time with many different GMs. So many mistakes. What is the common denominator indeed.

No elite #1 Center.

Who have been the Flames' foundational pieces for the last several decades?

Theo Fleury, Jarome Iginla, Johnny Gaudreau and soon to be Matthew Tkachuk.

This team has built their team on franchise wingers for as long as I've been in a fan of this team (young guns era). In that time we've also seen elite goaltenders, deep group on defense, quality wingers, all kinds of coaches (modern & veteran), small team, big team, skilled team, gritty team, young team, older team and etc etc etc.

But something I haven't personally seen yet is that elite, no questions asked, true #1 center. Olli Jokinen and Sean Monahan have been the closest, but if this team is trying to win a Stanley Cup or win multiple playoff rounds, is Sean Monahan going to out duel a Nathan McKinnon or a prime Ryan Getzlaf or a Leon Draisaitl of today?

If this organization ever wants to find one of these guys, then they have to draft one. They also have to stop picking #6 or #13 and etc. Generally speaking, these types of elite centers go first in a draft. Be patient, stop going the quick fix route (UFAs) and don't stop rebuilding until you find that guy(s).

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Some of us have following the team long enough to see the same mistakes played out over multiple GMs. So what’s the common denominator?

They hired terrible GMs?

They are not interfering like Jerry Jones and they are not as cheap as Melnyk.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

No elite #1 Center.

Who have been the Flames' foundational pieces for the last several decades?

Theo Fleury, Jarome Iginla, Johnny Gaudreau and soon to be Matthew Tkachuk.

This team has built their team on franchise wingers for as long as I've been in a fan of this team (young guns era). In that time we've also seen elite goaltenders, deep group on defense, quality wingers, all kinds of coaches (modern & veteran), small team, big team, skilled team, gritty team, young team, older team and etc etc etc.

But something I haven't personally seen yet is that elite, no questions asked, true #1 center. Olli Jokinen and Sean Monahan have been the closest, but if this team is trying to win a Stanley Cup or win multiple playoff rounds, is Sean Monahan going to out duel a Nathan McKinnon or a prime Ryan Getzlaf or a Leon Draisaitl of today?

If this organization ever wants to find one of these guys, then they have to draft one. They also have to stop picking #6 or #13 and etc. Generally speaking, these types of elite centers go first in a draft. Be patient, stop going the quick fix route (UFAs) and don't stop rebuilding until you find that guy(s).

We should print this and tape it to all the doors leading into the Saddledome.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

No elite #1 Center.

Who have been the Flames' foundational pieces for the last several decades?

Theo Fleury, Jarome Iginla, Johnny Gaudreau and soon to be Matthew Tkachuk.

This team has built their team on franchise wingers for as long as I've been in a fan of this team (young guns era). In that time we've also seen elite goaltenders, deep group on defense, quality wingers, all kinds of coaches (modern & veteran), small team, big team, skilled team, gritty team, young team, older team and etc etc etc.

But something I haven't personally seen yet is that elite, no questions asked, true #1 center. Olli Jokinen and Sean Monahan have been the closest, but if this team is trying to win a Stanley Cup or win multiple playoff rounds, is Sean Monahan going to out duel a Nathan McKinnon or a prime Ryan Getzlaf or a Leon Draisaitl of today?

If this organization ever wants to find one of these guys, then they have to draft one. They also have to stop picking #6 or #13 and etc. Generally speaking, these types of elite centers go first in a draft. Be patient, stop going the quick fix route (UFAs) and don't stop rebuilding until you find that guy(s).

Basically tank harder?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Largely, sure. But if Treliving says he’s going to trade the team’s biggest stars for younger assets, and the team will likely be out of the playoffs for 3 to 5 seasons, I doubt the response would be “sure, whatever you think is best, Brad.”

My assumption is ownership’s influence extends only as far as the strategic direction of the team: make the playoffs / all-in to win the Cup / rebuild. But if Treliving’s marching orders for his entire tenure has been “make the playoffs” (and I personally believe they have), then that influences the kinds of deals Treliving can and cannot make.

This is the "owners are too cheap to pay for an elite coach" malarkey again.

Even if that was the case, which we don't even know. The owners aren't the ones targeting and signing the Troy Brouwers and James Neals if the world. They're not telling Treliving to trade all their picks for Dougie and Hamonic because they love these players so much. That's all on Treliving and co. His vision is all about defense, building a strong defense, offense from your defense and etc etc. He chose the goaltenders, he chose the core, he chose to build through free agency.

Heck, I have sneaking suspicion that majority owner Murray Edwards doesn't know squat about hockey. He's asleep in London when the Flames play their games. I don't understand CP sometimes, people here are more then willing to dump on and run good coaches and good players out of town without blinking an eye. But Treliving has been here for 7 years, been through 5 different coaches and there's a 2000 post fortress defending his every move. Why didn't Geoff Ward or Glen Gulutzan get this kind of treatment? They had what, a few bad months and were unfairly torn to shreds here. Treliving has had 7 years and is one of the longest tenured GMs in the league, his lack of success should 100% put him on the hot seat.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Sandman

We should print this and tape it to all the doors leading into the Saddledome.

I should've added to the post, that it's of utmost importance to NOT pick the wrong guy. I think a lot of GMs have been fooled by picking the wrong players to build around and it's basically sullied their hard work.

It's like building a house. Don't pick the wrong material to build your foundation on or years of building and investing and decorating and collecting could come crashing down like the Flames of 2021. Build with the right foundation and eventually you'll end up with a master piece. Some homes may look better than others and will get more attention, but if you can live in your home comfortably for years or decades without worrying about it all crashing down one day, that's a home worth living in.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

No elite #1 Center.

Who have been the Flames' foundational pieces for the last several decades?

Theo Fleury, Jarome Iginla, Johnny Gaudreau and soon to be Matthew Tkachuk.

This team has built their team on franchise wingers for as long as I've been in a fan of this team (young guns era). In that time we've also seen elite goaltenders, deep group on defense, quality wingers, all kinds of coaches (modern & veteran), small team, big team, skilled team, gritty team, young team, older team and etc etc etc.

But something I haven't personally seen yet is that elite, no questions asked, true #1 center. Olli Jokinen and Sean Monahan have been the closest, but if this team is trying to win a Stanley Cup or win multiple playoff rounds, is Sean Monahan going to out duel a Nathan McKinnon or a prime Ryan Getzlaf or a Leon Draisaitl of today?

If this organization ever wants to find one of these guys, then they have to draft one. They also have to stop picking #6 or #13 and etc. Generally speaking, these types of elite centers go first in a draft. Be patient, stop going the quick fix route (UFAs) and don't stop rebuilding until you find that guy(s).

Interesting question - which teams have had a worse 'best' C in the cap era? I really like Monahan, but I think we're definitely in the bottom 10...maybe even bottom 5. The question is just about the best single, but I included a few options for who that might be.

Order arguable:
NYR - Zibanejad / M Nylander actually had two PPG seasons coming out the lockout) / B Richards (3)
CGY - Monahan / Langkow / Jokinen
NAS - Johansen / Legwand / Duchene / Arnott (4 yrs)
MIN - M Koivu / E Staal (3) / Demitra (2)
MTL - S Koivu / Plekanec

CBJ - PLD / Johansen / Fedorov (3 - high 43p)
ARI - it might actually be Derek Stepan or Nick Schmaltz. They have a bunch of guys who played a single season...none particularly impressively.
*VGK

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Basically tank harder?

Why not, we've tried to be competitive every year and look where it's gotten us. Most medicore NHL team in the NHL. Worse then Minnesota because at least they were perennial playoff participants and actually won a couple rounds whereas we're hit and miss.

Basically, since 1990, the 2 times the Flames have gone "deep" into the playoffs, it's been a complete shock and surprise. Every other year when the Flames have any type of expectations, us Flames fans are left disappointed. Every single year.

It's like watching a TV series for 25 years and every single year (minus 2 years), it ends in the exact same way. You go in with high hopes that the season won't disappoint because the commercials and the trailers all say it's going to be good, the studio or director or whoever hired all these new stars and it's the same ending every time. Like, why bother watching? If a TV show jerked you around for 25-30 years, wouldn't you just tune out eventually?

[Sandman]

I've read a lot of comments lately about certain fans overtures about abandoning their fandom of this team, and I get it-there's no way the last 30 years can be defended. But I just have to say-I will love this team forever, until the day they fold, or relocate. Flames fan until I die!

[Winsor_Pilates]

No elite #1 C, no elite superstar at all since Iggy and no desire for the franchise to ever do what's necessary to acquire those (rebuild).

It's a broken record now, but this franchise accepts being mediocre instead of rebuilding to potentially be elite.
They hire GMs who embody this philosophy and frankly even a lot of fans embody it.
It is the Flames way.

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I've read a lot of comments lately about certain fans overtures about abandoning their fandom of this team, and I get it-there's no way the last 30 years can be defended. But I just have to say-I will love this team forever, until the day they fold, or relocate. Flames fan until I die!

Same. No other team for me. No Flames, no hockey for this guy.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Yobbo

Same. No other team for me. No Flames, no hockey for this guy.

I would still watch hockey, and I might think about following the team a bit if they relocated, but it wouldn't nearly be the same. I have teams I follow in other sports too (I'm a big Raiders fan, and a HUGE Notre Dame Fighting Irish fan), but it's still nowhere near how much I love my Flames!

[Pointman]

If we are even talking about Kadri, Zucker etc. Feaster tried very hard to get Ryan O'Reilly. Does it make him a good GM? Ironically, Feaster was way closer to get a #1C, than Treliving ever has been.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spo...reilly/sn-amp/

[madmike]

While I’d like to see Treliving leave, I think bad luck has had a lot to do with where the Flames are today.

Sam Bennett killed the current version of this team. By all rights he should have been a solid 1C. You really can’t argue with the pick. He looked like a can’t-miss prospect. But he was a miss and instead the Flames have been stuck using Monahan as a 1C and he’s just not good enough.

Had Bennett actually turned into the player he should have been, I really think the Flames would have been a perennial contender instead of the bubble team they’ve been.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They hired terrible GMs?

They are not interfering like Jerry Jones and they are not as cheap as Melnyk.

But out of the last 5 GM's the Flames have had, Brad is likely in the top 4. So this may be improving.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by madmike

While I’d like to see Treliving leave, I think bad luck has had a lot to do with where the Flames are today.

Sam Bennett killed the current version of this team. By all rights he should have been a solid 1C. You really can’t argue with the pick. He looked like a can’t-miss prospect. But he was a miss and instead the Flames have been stuck using Monahan as a 1C and he’s just not good enough.

Had Bennett actually turned into the player he should have been, I really think the Flames would have been a perennial contender instead of the bubble team they’ve been.

That’s not bad luck

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by madmike

While I’d like to see Treliving leave, I think bad luck has had a lot to do with where the Flames are today.

Sam Bennett killed the current version of this team. By all rights he should have been a solid 1C. You really can’t argue with the pick. He looked like a can’t-miss prospect. But he was a miss and instead the Flames have been stuck using Monahan as a 1C and he’s just not good enough.

Had Bennett actually turned into the player he should have been, I really think the Flames would have been a perennial contender instead of the bubble team they’ve been.

Hindsight and all, but Bennett was a questionable pick. Drafting a guy, whose main qualities are compete level and work ethic is always risky. They can stop working hard at any given moment. Bennett just had unreal amount of energy in his body in his late teens and that fooled scouts into thinking that he can maintain that into his mid 20s. In reality, playing such game at the NHL level with his undersized body wore him out fairy fast.



"He plays the kind of game you think cannot be sustained for a whole season because it’s a high-energy game and compete game at all ends of the ice. He ends up playing that game for the whole year. He just never stops"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...1st-round-pick