Brad Treliving needs to go

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Joborule

This has been the epitome of this core. "They are just about to figure it out!" "This playoff series was just experience for them to grow since they lack it still." Said on this forum after each playoff series loss up to last years playoffs.

This core clearly couldn't figure it out, and the signs have been there all along. The same could be said about Treliving. This has been a cap team year in, year out. So it's not like he's been with constraints. He just hasn't made the moves that gets this team to advance to the 2nd round in the playoffs.

He has had location and trading chip constraints, as well as draft position constraints.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He has had location and trading chip constraints, as well as draft position constraints.

Aside from the location, all of those are self imposed. And the location issue could be resolved if the team is actually a contender. Players want to play for a team that's going to win. It's why they were able to sign players like Neal when he was a hot item on the market because they looked like they were poised to start doing damage.

Location for NHL teams doesn't mean much considering the big bulk of the league are Canadians from small towns. Only reason location is a true asset is when your team sucks, and the players value the location, money, and/or opportunity moreso than being on a contender at the start of the contract.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Do season ticket holders really want to watch this? I can't be on an island here by saying I would rather have the Ottawa team then Calgary

Watching Ottawa at least you’d have some hope for the future. When they’re playing the Flames you’d also know you’re probably going to get a win.

[DazzlinDino]

Flames should have looked beyond Johnny amd Monahan to build a better top line. Your top line has to be committed, durable, and have the necessary skill to get the job done, defensively and as goal scorers. Adding tofolli probably doesn't move the needle enough. At this point in their careers Johnny and Monahan should be counted on as complementary pieces not guys counted on the carry the top line especially through the playoffs. Like GIO they have somewhat declined. I think it is too late to add a rw for that line, Flames should be revamping the top line with better pieces.I think Brad will be okay if he and Darryl can butt heads together and agree on the right players to make that happen.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A 1C (impossible) and a clear 1G (obtained).

Tell me - did you cheer the Neal signing?

What is the obsession on this site with whether people "saw things coming". We're critiquing moves by the GM not hockey board posters.

[zamler]

This organization excels at waiting too long.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

There are no other options

Is it a problem with this organization that there is too much sympathy and not enough accountability?

Sympathy? No, that's not the gist of my post.


I just see both sides of the coin at the moment, and I don't always react with 'I need blood' when things go down the tubes. Sometimes it is someone's fault, and that person needs to be held accountable. Sometimes you look for someone to blame to make yourself feel better. My point is that I am not sold on this being all on Treliving.


I am ok with either direction.



Keep Treliving: You can argue that this team should have been better, that he finally hired a decent coach (but too little too late), that on paper this team is vastly superior to the results it has shown. That he has learned while being a GM and can be trusted to make the correct moves, and can identify exactly what is going wrong with the team and fix it.


Fire him: 7 years is long enough to 'build a contender'. Heck, he hasn't even built a consistent playoff team. I can 100% support that this is a place someone can easily draw the line.


There was a 'grace period' when Treliving took over. He was a rookie GM. I thought that the clock wasn't running right when he got hired. There was time for him to grow into his role, so to speak.


I think he pressed the "Start" timer on his stopwatch the instant he fired Hartley. To me, that was the moment when the clock officially started. He fired Hartley, but he replaced him with incompetence (in one way or another) consecutively up until Darryl. Instead of 'growing the core', you can argue that he stunted the core due to the incompetent coaching staff. He has allowed that 'I don't care so badly' sentiment to seep into this organization again after Feaster (his one good contribution) helped to finally eradicate it with Hartley.


I am ok with Treliving fired, and he has done enough to warrant it.


I am also ok with retaining Treliving, because he has built what I thought was a pretty good team that is massively underperforming for some reason (and I don't know why).



Maybe it is as simple as the Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't? Not sure. Maybe I have grown just as wary of the GM role as I have of the head coaching role whenever we start talking of change.



But hey, I am also of the crazy opinion that Darryl Sutter would probably have done a much better job rebuilding this team if he wasn't canned than Feaster did, and what Treliving did, as he was also a rookie GM that was learning on the job and made some 'big boo boos', but probably learned from those and maybe would have been 'trusted' by most people again. Maybe I am just living in a fantasy world too, so why do you even try to make conversation with a guy like me that is on the train and carrying on a very loud conversation with himself?


TLDR: Not sympathy from me. A mix of "good vs bad" that he has done, with a sprinkle of "the next one could be much worse... it could be another Feaster or Riseborough!". I am more on the fence right now than ever, and have bounced back and forth between fire him and keep him over the last few months. I guess what he does or doesn't do in the next couple of months will push me onto one side or the other.

[soulchoice]

The entire Flames roster is flawed. Toffoli doesn't swing this club any closer to a playoff position. Especially given the price tag of the cost to sign him(not saying he would have came here anyways). Signing Toffoli would have just left a gaping hole somewhere else.

[Vedder]

You hitch your wagon to your top players as a GM. Hard to forecast such a dramatic decline in Gaudreau and Monahan at the time of their last contracts which is really the fundamental issue with this team. We're paying 13mm for two guys that can't carry the play or generate chances consistently at even strength. That and the Bennet pick flopping have killed the rebuild. What was looking like a dynamite top 2 center combo has become the third and fifth best centers on the team.

I'm skeptical they'll axe a guy they just gave a contract extension to. And I'm equally skeptical that the replacement won't replicate a lot of the same mistakes. I see so much of the job as luck, so I'd rather have a guy that's learned some lessons the hard way and has familiarity with the organization.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

What Vezina level goaltending?

The guy lost the job to demko in last year playoffs

Once again Treliving made a bad UFA signing


Also, if the core is bad, who put together this core?

Lol things are bad enough you don't need to make stuff up...Markstrom carried the team to the playoffs on his back. Check his record vs. Demko and won the play in round and the first round standing on his head. Was 4th in Vezina voting. Those are facts.

Demko went in because Markstrom got hurt (after facing 40+ shots a game for 3 weeks straight). He has had a tough couple months no need to re-write history.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by zamler

This organization excels at waiting too long.

Except when it comes to things like hanging on to draft picks.

[Iggy Snipe]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol things are bad enough you don't need to make stuff up...Markstrom carried the team to the playoffs on his back. Check his record vs. Demko and won the play in round and the first round standing on his head. Was 4th in Vezina voting. Those are facts.

Demko went in because Markstrom got hurt (after facing 40+ shots a game for 3 weeks straight). He has had a tough couple months no need to re-write history.

I agree. Markstrom is not the problem in Calgary. You could have ANY goalie in the league playing for Calgary right now, and they are not in a playoff position.

Goaltending is Calgarys strongest position. Enough said.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol things are bad enough you don't need to make stuff up...Markstrom carried the team to the playoffs on his back. Check his record vs. Demko and won the play in round and the first round standing on his head. Was 4th in Vezina voting. Those are facts.

Demko went in because Markstrom got hurt (after facing 40+ shots a game for 3 weeks straight). He has had a tough couple months no need to re-write history.

The four previous year F Andersen had slightly better numbers than JM in front of a similarly porous team.

I think JM will have 3-4 good years if he's kept to ~55 games, but I doubt it'll be at perennial vezina contender level.

TBF, it is become really rare for anyone to stay in the Vezina hunt for more than ~5 years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The four previous year F Andersen had slightly better numbers than JM in front of a similarly porous team.

I think JM will have 3-4 good years if he's kept to ~55 games, but I doubt it'll be at perennial vezina contender level.

TBF, it is become really rare for anyone to stay in the Vezina hunt for more than ~5 years.

Toronto was much better than Vancouver...anyway I was just correcting a post full of falsehoods. Markstrom never lost the starting job. And he was Vezina caliber.

We saw how good Markstrom can be at the start of the season. Hope next year is more like that.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think it is fair to question Markstrom. I personally feel Ward was playing him too much, and then after his injury was rushed back too soon. I hope for a bounce-back from him, and I thought he was literally unbeatable to start the season (only the Flames' own players were scoring on him!).


Whether it is a nagging injury, an adjustment that he is making in response to how the Flames are playing, or something else - he hasn't been solid. He hasn't been putrid (we have seen worse!), but he isn't playing as a fairly reliable starter right now.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

The entire Flames roster is flawed. Toffoli doesn't swing this club any closer to a playoff position. Especially given the price tag of the cost to sign him(not saying he would have came here anyways). Signing Toffoli would have just left a gaping hole somewhere else.

The Flames organization and fans fall in love with their players.

It is pretty normal for fans but but with management it results in too many player favorable contracts.

You hear how the Flames got such favorable contracts signing Lindholm, Hanifin, Gaudreau, Monahan, Andersson and Backlund... and yet throw in Gio and Tkachuk and this core is not very strong.

I think that Backlund is a good hockey player ... giving him a 5.35 year contract at age 29 was a reason to get fired. There was no reasonable expectation that he might be a #1 C and yet is getting paid pretty close to one.

Ryan again is an okay player and thank goodness he only got a 3 x 3.15 which was likely a surprise to him to get so much. He isn't and never was 2 M better than Rieder.

He was playing in Carolina on UFA 1 year deals for 600K, 600K and 1.425

Carolina did not fall in love with him.


Andersson was paid top-4 money as a RFA with 4 more years of team control because he looked solid as a #5 d-man on Gio's Norris trophy year.

What was the problem with Andersson coming off a 2x2 this season as an RFA? Would he be disgruntled? IMHO he would jump at signing a 5 x 4.5 which is what he is looking at going forward.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Well through rushing a rebuild, trading away valuable picks in the process, cultivating a weak pool of prospects, building a fundamentally flawed team, fostering a poor team culture, he has learned some valuable lessons, will fight those previous impulses that brought us to this point, and will do the opposite! Love it

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think it is fair to question Markstrom. I personally feel Ward was playing him too much, and then after his injury was rushed back too soon. I hope for a bounce-back from him, and I thought he was literally unbeatable to start the season (only the Flames' own players were scoring on him!).


Whether it is a nagging injury, an adjustment that he is making in response to how the Flames are playing, or something else - he hasn't been solid. He hasn't been putrid (we have seen worse!), but he isn't playing as a fairly reliable starter right now.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't question him now...just that you don't need to make up stuff that didn't happen last season to make Brad look worse.

[dino7c]

Honest question, would anyone change their mind if Brad made a couple shrewd moves next week? Obviously we wouldn't know for sure but seemingly shrewd moves. Like "deadline winners" type moves.

Could end up being a silver lining in a season where competitors will waste assets only to lose in the playoffs.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...I think that Backlund is a good hockey player ... giving him a 5.35 year contract at age 29 was a reason to get fired. There was no reasonable expectation that he might be a #1 C and yet is getting paid pretty close to one.

Mikael Backlund has the #48-highest cap hit in the NHL among centres. He is getting paid nowhere near the top centres in the League.

Ryan again is an okay player and thank goodness he only got a 3 x 3.15 which was likely a surprise to him to get so much. He isn't and never was 2 M better than Rieder.

Before this season Derek Ryan was producing consistently at just under a 0.5 pts/GP pace, which is excellent for a third-line centre. He is the #80 highest paid centre in the NHL.

Andersson was paid top-4 money as a RFA with 4 more years of team control because he looked solid as a #5 d-man on Gio's Norris trophy year.

What was the problem with Andersson coming off a 2x2 this season as an RFA? Would he be disgruntled? IMHO he would jump at signing a 5 x 4.5 which is what he is looking at going forward.

In the current NHL economy there was no way Andersson was setting on a $2.0 m AAV. You continue to exist in this bizarro world in which players should all be paid like it's 2010. Inflation is real.