Brad Treliving needs to go

[Manhattanboy]

The owners are not going to pay another ex-employee.

I don't see him demoted or fired before the end of his current contract.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Or:

“So those core players that I’ve expressed doubts about since the Avs series? Who I explored deals for in the summer, and found almost no takers and really bad deals because the NHL trade market has been essentially frozen for 12 months? Looks like I’m going to have to deal them for even less of a return this offseason because even your old friend Darryl hasn’t found a way to get through to them like you hoped.

“And since straight hockey deals are vanishingly rare these days, it’s doubtful we’ll get two core players in return, so the team will likely take another step back next season. Are you okay with rebuilding while you’re trying to sell seasons tickets for the new building? Or do you want me to stick with the original plan and do whatever it takes to make the playoffs for the next couple of seasons?”

That's assuming he ever has expressed doubts. He's had rants in the media about giving them time and has tried to ADD pieces not replace players not working out, as far as we can tell.
It also doesn't take into account the areas he's fully failed in like getting a RW to play with your most skilled player, leading to the top line stagnating and regressing.
Having said all that you make good points about the market etc.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

The owners are not going to pay another ex-employee.

I don't see him demoted or fired before the end of his current contract.

If it's about $, they should think more about selling season tickets, and boxes in a new arena. Interest in the team is low. The economy is weak. They could afford the hit of paying Treliving after he is gone. Can they afford an empty arena?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by united

The Wizard just needs more time. He’s only seven years into creating his style of team which isn’t nearly enough time.

It was a really tough job to take on. All he inherited was Mark Giordano, Johnny Gaudreau, Sean Monahan, TJ Brodie, and Mikael Backlund. Even the best GMs would struggle with being handed that type of foundation on a silver platter.

The hallmark of good teams is stability at the GM position. If you have a bad GM you should keep him for another several years because he might become good. And then if he doesn’t become good, you should give him another few years because he might just get lucky. Only then should you make a change.

I Bradlieve in the Wizard.

As has been the case, the challenge BT had was being handed a very poor asset base overall. One of the worst in the league.

As I posted a while back:

He had:
- A weak prospect base (if I'm looking at the right year it boasted the likes of Emile Poirier, Sven kicking around, Markus Granlund, Bill Arnold, Morgan Klimchuk, Corban Knight...they then added Sam, Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Brandon Hickey - in the 2014 draft.) Hardly a stellar group
- No #1 goalie. The previous year had Ramo, Ortio, MacDonald and Berra. Yuck. You can say you shouldn't overpay for a #1 when re-building but you need one either way.
- A leading scorer the previous year that had 54 points in 75 games.
- A top goal scorer the previous year with 26 goals in 63 games, who walked as a UFA.

Again he had some young talent coming for sure. But the most important thing is the assets to work with. He had
- One of the worst prospect bases
- A very poor roster

But some young talent coming and some cap space.

[SuperMatt18]

To me Brad Treliving's nick name should probably be Two-Face.

He tends to be either very good, or very bad, and really alternates between the two.

Generally If I'm looking at him objectively I think hes:

- Good at establishing our drafting strategy and think we've drafted well under him BUT we don't have enough picks because he has traded way too many away for short term fixes.

- He's really good when it comes to RFA negotiations and most of those extensions have been good value BUT he's terrible at signing UFAs with both the Brouwer and Neal signings really holding this team back.

- His trades have really been a mixed bag and overall would probably be a failing grade just due to trading to many picks away in recent years.

- His ability to hire a coach is broken and has also held the team back.

Overall if I had to give him a grade he'd probably get a "C". I don't think he gets fired though, I think him and Sutter are tied together now and why their contracts expire at the same time.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As has been the case, the challenge BT had was being handed a very poor asset base overall. One of the worst in the league.

As I posted a while back:

He had:
- A weak prospect base (if I'm looking at the right year it boasted the likes of Emile Poirier, Sven kicking around, Markus Granlund, Bill Arnold, Morgan Klimchuk, Corban Knight...they then added Sam, Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Brandon Hickey - in the 2014 draft.) Hardly a stellar group
- No #1 goalie. The previous year had Ramo, Ortio, MacDonald and Berra. Yuck. You can say you shouldn't overpay for a #1 when re-building but you need one either way.
- A leading scorer the previous year that had 54 points in 75 games.
- A top goal scorer the previous year with 26 goals in 63 games, who walked as a UFA.

Again he had some young talent coming for sure. But the most important thing is the assets to work with. He had
- One of the worst prospect bases
- A very poor roster

But some young talent coming and some cap space.

What do you expect he would have? it was supposed to be the beginning stages of a rebuild.
- He had some premium talent on the roster to either build on or trade away.
- He had plenty of good prospects, many didn't pan out which isn't unusual. He could have chosen to keep them or trade them.
- He had all of his draft picks and the ability to add more by dealing veterans, which in some cases he did.
- He had tons of cap space, no anchor contracts.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As has been the case, the challenge BT had was being handed a very poor asset base overall. One of the worst in the league.

As I posted a while back:

He had:
- A weak prospect base (if I'm looking at the right year it boasted the likes of Emile Poirier, Sven kicking around, Markus Granlund, Bill Arnold, Morgan Klimchuk, Corban Knight...they then added Sam, Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Brandon Hickey - in the 2014 draft.) Hardly a stellar group
- No #1 goalie. The previous year had Ramo, Ortio, MacDonald and Berra. Yuck. You can say you shouldn't overpay for a #1 when re-building but you need one either way.
- A leading scorer the previous year that had 54 points in 75 games.
- A top goal scorer the previous year with 26 goals in 63 games, who walked as a UFA.

Again he had some young talent coming for sure. But the most important thing is the assets to work with. He had
- One of the worst prospect bases
- A very poor roster

But some young talent coming and some cap space.

And after 7 years he has made this team better?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Bennett stuff

I bumped the good 'ole Bennett thread to respond. Appropriate since it's now or never to trade him anyways.

[mrdonkey]

If anything, the organization is in worse shape now than when Brad took over. Bottom 5 prospect pool, veteran-heavy team of underperformers with several albatross deals on the books, no surplus of picks, no especially high-value contracts to capitalize on, and a core that won’t really return much via trade because of the term left on their deals.

It’s probably most similar to what Sutter left Jay Feaster to work with, if anything.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by troutman

If it's about $, they should think more about selling season tickets, and boxes in a new arena. Interest in the team is low. The economy is weak. They could afford the hit of paying Treliving after he is gone. Can they afford an empty arena?

I think this is a good part of why they hired Sutter when they did.

[Bonded]

I actually don't think there are many bad contracts on the Flames books. Who is an albatross? The only potential in my view right now is Markstrom.
Lucic and Gio don't have enough term left to be a real albatross at this point. Backlund is okay for now.

The Sharks are the team with the worst contracts in the league.

[timbit]

How has the game changed so much, that a mere 27 months ago, the Flames had 4 dynamic and highly productive star players that are now mere average to below average? Their production has PLUMMETED!

Is that Treliving’s fault? Sincere question.

They are on their 3rd coach in that period.

These 4 players were ALL within the top 50 even strength scorers in the league, during the 18/19 season.

Heck, Gaudreau was FIFTH in ES scoring in the 18-19 season. He is PRESENTLY, 176th in the NHL.

Lindholm leads the 4 core forwards, at 76th in the NHL, presently.

What happened?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by timbit

How has the game changed so much, that a mere 27 months ago, the Flames had 4 dynamic and highly productive star players that are now mere average to below average? Their production has PLUMMETED

What happened?

I feel like some kind of fall out happened between players during that 2019 all star break or something. The top line started sucking real bad then.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by timbit

How has the game changed so much, that a mere 27 months ago, the Flames had 4 dynamic and highly productive star players that are now mere average to below average? Their production has PLUMMETED!

Is that Treliving’s fault? Sincere question.

They are on their 3rd coach in that period.

These 4 players were ALL within the top 50 even strength scorers in the league, during the 18/19 season.

Heck, Gaudreau was FIFTH in ES scoring in the 18-19 season. He is PRESENTLY, 176th in the NHL.

Lindholm leads the 4 core forwards, at 76th in the NHL, presently.

What happened?

Well, you would think the GM who runs the team would know what's happening? Is it the players all of a sudden just suck? Are there deeper issues in the Flames locker room that we don't know about? Is it a leadership issue? Etc

Treliving gets paid the big bucks to fix those issues.

[troutman]

Maybe the other teams "solved" those 4 players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cobra

And after 7 years he has made this team better?

The team was much better after five years. But for a variety of reasons—including several outside of the team's control—things have degraded shockingly quickly.

But another way to look at it is this: only four of the teams top-ten scorers when Treliving was hired were drafted and/or developed by the Flames. Today, that number is up to eight. There are several ways to gauge improvement.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I actually don't think there are many bad contracts on the Flames books. Who is an albatross? The only potential in my view right now is Markstrom.
Lucic and Gio don't have enough term left to be a real albatross at this point. Backlund is okay for now.

The Sharks are the team with the worst contracts in the league.

An average UFA backup is around 4M these days...and only going up

Markstom is fine, more than fine

Guy has had a tough couple months after and injury with his team playing like ass

People act like Markstrom has the Bob or Price contract

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The team was much better after five years. But for a variety of reasons—including several outside of the team's control—things have degraded shockingly quickly.

But another way to look at it is this: only four of the teams top-ten scorers when Treliving was hired were drafted and/or developed by the Flames. Today, that number is up to eight. There are several ways to gauge improvement.

That's not one of them.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

An average UFA backup is around 4M these days...and only going up

I agree but he is the only contract with term that could be iffy. Backlund's contract isn't great either but not like he is making 8 million or something.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The team was much better after five years. But for a variety of reasons—including several outside of the team's control—things have degraded shockingly quickly.

But another way to look at it is this: only four of the teams top-ten scorers when Treliving was hired were drafted and/or developed by the Flames. Today, that number is up to eight. There are several ways to gauge improvement.

I like most fans judge improvement by what I see on the ice and how the team does in the standings.
But hey keep on defending Brad as the future looks very promising.