[CP Story] Deep Dive: Markstrom's Rollercoaster Season

[442scotty]

If you take all of Giordanos poor ill advised pinches leading to goals out of the equation I wonder how much better that pairing would be.

[442scotty]

As for goaltending, Flames goalies always seem to start their career with the team quite well until they get beaten down by the players lack of skill, commitment, heart ... you name it. Markstrom started awesome but he was all alone out there for the most part... they don’t support or play for their goalies

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Its the team. They make most goalies lose confidence over time. Then they start second guessing how far out they need to be or if the defender will have the pass across etc. Little things like that. Getting blown out every 3rd or 4th game doesn't help either. Talbot and Smith both look pretty good since leaving.

This is fair. My problem with the Flames fanbase, or a vocal segment of it, is that there is almost constantly some sort of issue with either the goaltending or coaching that is leading to the team's demise. We've again addressed both areas this year, and yet, here we are pointing the finger at the goaltending again. Last year it was Rittich who was causing the tailspin and the year before that Smith - the lone constant is the group quitting in front of each goalie.

The core players, GM and captain are all the ones who should be feeling the heat for this utter failure, not the newly acquired, elite goaltender. This team, this franchise is just not good. If any of them had any pride they'd be out there fully committed to at least building on something for next year. What we have is mainly a group of spineless cheque cashers that have no commitment to winning.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

If you take all of Giordanos poor ill advised pinches leading to goals out of the equation I wonder how much better that pairing would be.

The team is coached to pinch.

The issue is when the high forward doesn't recognize it's happening and you get a two on one. Or like last night the high forward didn't have enough foot speed and panicked.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This is fair. My problem with the Flames fanbase, or a vocal segment of it, is that there is almost constantly some sort of issue with either the goaltending or coaching that is leading to the team's demise. We've again addressed both areas this year, and yet, here we are pointing the finger at the goaltending again. Last year it was Rittich who was causing the tailspin and the year before that Smith - the lone constant is the group quitting in front of each goalie.

The core players, GM and captain are all the ones who should be feeling the heat for this utter failure, not the newly acquired, elite goaltender. This team, this franchise is just not good. If any of them had any pride they'd be out there fully committed to at least building on something for next year. What we have is mainly a group of spineless cheque cashers that have no commitment to winning.

Yeah man Mike Smith was a perfect goaltender for us who was robbed of the Vezina. He definitely didn't cost us dozens of goals that year that seemed to go right through him from far out or in his adventures out of the crease.

[Calgary4LIfe]

There was no denying that a consistent hole on the team since Treliving arrived (and going back further than when he arrived) was goaltending.


I say this with actually believing that Rittich can be a capable starter in this league, and I bet he will be eventually.



Hiller letting in beachballs. Elliott destroying this team in the playoffs. Talbot being inconsistent.


Treliving went out and got the best available goalie on the market last year, and didn't pay 10 million a season for. It was a good signing then. Long term, big money signings are always scary, full stop. However, it was the right move then, and I think it will show to be the right move overall. Flames are just.. inconsistent all over the place, and there was absolutely not denying that Markstrom came in as advertised to start the season. Whether he is playing through a nagging injury, or just something is 'off' about him, we will see, but it isn't a move that should be reviewed in hindsight with too much seriousness at the moment.

[pepper24]

Ramo, Hiller, Elliott, Johnson, Smith, Rittich, Talbot, Markstrom. All under Jordan Sigalet. I might even be missing a few goalies.

Sigalet should have been fired around Elliott/Johnson and Smith/Rittich eras. Instead he gets promoted before this season. Terrible move by Treliving rewarding mediocrity at best.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Ramo, Hiller, Elliott, Johnson, Smith, Rittich, Talbot, Markstrom. All under Jordan Sigalet. I might even be missing a few goalies.

Sigalet should have been fired around Elliott/Johnson and Smith/Rittich eras. Instead he gets promoted before this season. Terrible move by Treliving rewarding mediocrity at best.

There's no doubt of Trelivings numerous other mistakes overshadow the bizarreness around Sigalet. In most organizations the goaltending coach would get fired for a track record of continuous poor goaltender play but under Treliving it's rewarded with a promotion. Ian Clark seems to be proof that goaltender coaches indeed can make a big difference. Given the investment in Markstrom the team should probably take a good run at Clark in the offseason.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's no doubt of Trelivings numerous other mistakes overshadow the bizarreness around Sigalet. In most organizations the goaltending coach would get fired for a track record of continuous poor goaltender play but under Treliving it's rewarded with a promotion. Ian Clark seems to be proof that goaltender coaches indeed can make a big difference. Given the investment in Markstrom the team should probably take a good run at Clark in the offseason.

Is that a fact? I honestly don't know what the NHL market is like for goaltending coaches, how much turnover there is, and under what circumstances. It would be great if you could provide some broader context for this.

I agree in part about Clark. He has an excellent track record, and I consider him one of a very small handful of elite goalie coaches, along with Mitch Korn and Sean Burke.

I disagree that Markstrom's issues are coaching. It sure looks to me like they could be injury related, but it is probably far too early to tell.

[Erick Estrada]

Nobody can be sure why Markstrom has struggled but reuniting him with Clark certainly couldn’t hurt.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nobody can be sure why Markstrom has struggled but reuniting him with Clark certainly couldn’t hurt.

Probably, but I sure hope that Flames management don't make decisions by shrugging their shoulders and saying, "Couldn't hurt."

If they make a change to the goalie coach I expect there will be a reason to do so.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Monahammer]

TC, this is not the first time you've leapt to defend Sigalet. So why?

In what other position (outside of GM of the Oilers) can an individual put up such consistently poor results and expect a promotion?

Why was Sigalet promoted?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

TC, this is not the first time you've leapt to defend Sigalet. So why?

In what other position (outside of GM of the Oilers) can an individual put up such consistently poor results and expect a promotion?

Why was Sigalet promoted?

If you guys haven't figured out that Textcritic is Treliving yet I don't know what to tell you. The clues are everywhere.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

TC, this is not the first time you've leapt to defend Sigalet. So why?

In what other position (outside of GM of the Oilers) can an individual put up such consistently poor results and expect a promotion?

Why was Sigalet promoted?

I think you will find through my post history not that I have been a defender of Sigalet so much as I am a defender of the fact that we just have no good way to gauge the ability and performance of goalie coaches. I have said before that Sigalet may be a great, an average or terrible coach, but that I am not confident in any of us to know one way or the other.

One of the reasons I asked above about the turnover rate of goalie coaches is in part because I am honestly curious, but then also because I think this is a vocation within professional hockey about which we as fans know almost nothing.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

If you guys haven't figured out that Textcritic is Treliving yet I don't know what to tell you. The clues are everywhere.

Reality is often disappointing, and things are always more fanciful in our minds- a lesson you should have learned by now following the canucks.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think you will find through my post history not that I have been a defender of Sigalet so much as I am a defender of the fact that we just have no good way to gauge the ability and performance of goalie coaches. I have said before that Sigalet may be a great, an average or terrible coach, but that I am not confident in any of us to know one way or the other.

One of the reasons I asked above about the turnover rate of goalie coaches is in part because I am honestly curious, but then also because I think this is a vocation within professional hockey about which we as fans know almost nothing.

I accept that, but it doesn't answer the question of what metrics could possibly have led to him being given a promotion.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

If you guys haven't figured out that Textcritic is Treliving yet I don't know what to tell you. The clues are everywhere.

It took more work than you can imagine to construct a convincing online alias, and then to keep it up for so long.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It took more work than you can imagine to construct a convincing online alias, and then to keep it up for so long.

You do have the money to have a guy pose as you on TV lol

[1qqaaz]

I am Jon Snow when it comes to knowing about goaltending coaches and their effectiveness, but I think it would be interesting if the Flames hired James Jensen for the Stockton Heat. I believe Jensen has been the goaltending coach for the Everett Silvertips since 2018. Dustin Wolf and the backups have been fantastic since then. He also worked with Dubnyk and Andersen back in the day.

At the very least, he has a track record of success, which is something I hope the Flames start looking at more than before.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I accept that, but it doesn't answer the question of what metrics could possibly have led to him being given a promotion.

No, it doesn't. But not because such metrics do not exist, rather because we simply have no idea what they are.

To once again clarify, in response to the most recent posted assertion by pepper24 that "Sigalet should have been fired around Elliott/Johnson and Smith/Rittich eras," I continue to say that I have no idea whether this is accurate or false. In response to Estrada's assertion that "in most organizations the goaltending coach would get fired for a track record of continuous poor goaltender play," I will ask if that is how Sigalet's performance is measured, and I will once again like to know what turnover amongst NHL goalie coaches looks like.