Brad Treliving Trade History

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What is the story behind Fox only wanting to play for NYR? Was it some guarantee of a starting position or what?

Has there ever been any reputable reporting on that?

Kid was born in NY state and his dad was a NYR season ticket holder... I don't know if he would 'only' play for NYR, but he wasn't playing for Calgary and didn't want to play for Carolina either.

https://www.nhl.com/news/adam-fox-li...rs/c-311887160

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by chedder

It's not hindsight when you see it 3 years in a row. I can see them getting another year after the Colorado embarrassment. But last year's playoffs showed that Colorado wasn't a one off. We're now going into year three and this core isnt even going to make the playoffs. Changes should have been made after last season.

I think the pandemic and the flat cap seriously interfered with opportunities to make significant changes. Virtually all the NHL trades made since last year's TD have been fairly underwhelming.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I think he’s saying he inherited a pretty ideal situation and has produced extremely middling results has gone through three horrible coaches, multiple goalies, bad free agent signings, poor drafting, traded away multiple draft picks, a bad pool of prospects, spent to the cap, and the team is worse off now than it was when he came on board.

They banked on Johnny and Monahan for top line guys, but when the playoffs rolled around it became evident those 2 were not built to lead the team through the playoffs. What made matters worse was those 2 didn't always drive the bus and started to show shades of inconsistency (It also didn't help that Monahan was playing hurt and required several surgeries).

The Flames management miscalculated and came out of that rebuild too soon. Top line needs better players because this team is poorly constructed.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Kid was born in NY state and his dad was a NYR season ticket holder... I don't know if he would 'only' play for NYR, but he wasn't playing for Calgary and didn't want to play for Carolina either.

https://www.nhl.com/news/adam-fox-li...rs/c-311887160

Thanks. And that explains the appeal for him.. Now lots of players don’t play for the childhood team so I do wonder what the discussion was with Calgary and Carolina. He did turn pro after his junior year which he could not have done if we waited until UFA.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

A

His core is missing Barzal because he traded that pick away. His core is missing Farabee because he traded that pick away. There are many elite teams that have not picked in the top 3 or 4 on the draft in the past 10 years. Other teams accumulate enough assets to become good. Brad dodged that bullet.

"Many elite teams"?

· Anaheim
· Minnesota
· Washington
· St Louis
· Vegas
· SJ
· Pittsburgh
· Vancouver

These are the only teams to have not drafted in the top four the past ten years. Minnesota and Vancouver have not been elite teams at any point over that time, and Anaheim and SJ presently are not elite teams. Washington and Pittsburgh have won championships during this time, but with generational talents on their rosters that were drafted in the top-two in earlier drafts. Vegas was built through an exceptionally favourable expansion draft, and only two of their own draft picks have ever played games for them.

That would leave St Louis. Exactly one team that has managed to be elite without the benefit of a top-four draft pick, or the expansion draft.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Thanks. And that explains the appeal for him.. Now lots of players don’t play for the childhood team so I do wonder what the discussion was with Calgary and Carolina. He did turn pro after his junior year which he could not have done if we waited until UFA.

The narrative was that he felt blocked in Carolina behind a deep blue line

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

They banked on Johnny and Monahan for top line guys, but when the playoffs rolled around it became evident those 2 were not built to lead the team through the playoffs. What made matters worse was those 2 didn't always drive the bus and started to show shades of inconsistency (It also didn't help that Monahan was playing hurt and required several surgeries).

The Flames management miscalculated and came out of that rebuild too soon. Top line needs better players because this team is poorly constructed.

I agree.

I always felt Monahan and Gaudreau were great pieces but did not fit the typical elite team model and they needed another ace down the middle.

The Leafs had Marner and Matthews and still pursued Tavares. We never added another top piece up front.

[mrdonkey]

If Brad is guilty of anything it’s falling in love with his own roster. For as bad as the Flames got dunked on in that Avs series, he sat on his hands the next several years for some reason. Plenty of people saw the writing on the wall then, and the core players are now worth a fraction of what they once were with the exact same problems plaguing them today. It didn’t take a fortune teller to predict that.

He painted himself into this corner, and I have no desire to see what he’ll do to try and paint himself back out (that is, if he does anything at all).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Many elite teams"?

· Anaheim
· Minnesota
· Washington
· St Louis
· Vegas
· SJ
· Pittsburgh
· Vancouver

These are the only teams to have not drafted in the top four the past ten years. Minnesota and Vancouver have not been elite teams at any point over that time, and Anaheim and SJ presently are not elite teams. Washington and Pittsburgh have won championships during this time, but with generational talents on their rosters that were drafted in the top-two in earlier drafts. Vegas was built through an exceptionally favourable expansion draft, and only two of their own draft picks have ever played games for them.

That would leave St Louis. Exactly one team that has managed to be elite without the benefit of a top-four draft pick, or the expansion draft.

Boston has not drafted in the top 4 in the past 10 drafts, they are pretty good as well. Made a few finals. The Islanders squeak into the top 4 (which we have as well, a top 4 pick) once 10 years ago, after the upcoming draft they will be in that category and they look based on the past couple seasons and this year that they are currently in the elite category. So it most certainly is possible.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I agree.

I always felt Monahan and Gaudreau were great pieces but did not fit the typical elite team model and they needed another ace down the middle.

The Leafs had Marner and Matthews and still pursued Tavares. We never added another top piece up front.

That piece is one that pretty much only comes through the very top-end of the draft. Toronto had to pay $77 m for seven-years of John Tavares to get one, and drafted #1 overall to get the other. You could say that the Flames missed on drafting Barzel in 2015, but I don't think anyone on earth had him pegged as a top-line NHL centre, and at the time conventional thinking was that Bennett would be that for Calgary.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So maybe you can explain how it happened.

Because it turns out Tom Dundon really is the smartest guy in the room, and not the arrogant meddler who would learn a painful lesson by defying NHL orthodoxy.

The only important player over 27 on the roster is Jordan Staal. They have over $6 mil in cap space. And they have the second highest winning percentage in the NHL.

The Hurricanes have not bled picks to beef up their roster, and their biggest offseason signing was Jesper Fast.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Boston has not drafted in the top 4 in the past 10 drafts, they are pretty good as well.

The Bruins picked Tyler Seguin #2 in 2010. I suppose that is technically eleven years, but it's a fairly arbitrary cut-off point, anyways.

The Islanders squeak into the top 4 (which we have as well, a top 4 pick) once 10 years ago, after the upcoming draft they will be in that category and they look based on the past couple seasons and this year that they are currently in the elite category. So it most certainly is possible.

But you said there were "many elite teams." That is different than merely "possible"; it suggests that it is commonplace. There is at best three teams, which shows that it clearly is not.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Because it turns out Tom Dundon really is the smartest guy in the room, and not the arrogant meddler who would learn a painful lesson by defying NHL orthodoxy.

The only important player over 27 on the roster is Jordan Staal. They have over $6 mil in cap space. And they have the second highest winning percentage in the NHL.

The Hurricanes have not bled picks to beef up their roster, and their biggest offseason signing was Jesper Fast.

Yup starts with ownership and what they are demanding or how they are setting objectives and guard rails
Doesn’t matter who the gm is if the owners set goals that incentivize short term thinking

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Thanks. And that explains the appeal for him.. Now lots of players don’t play for the childhood team so I do wonder what the discussion was with Calgary and Carolina. He did turn pro after his junior year which he could not have done if we waited until UFA.

IIRC he signed when he was traded to the Rangers; otherwise he would have finished his senior year at Harvard and then would have become a UFA anyways...so Carolina, like Calgary before them, was obligated to trade him for assets or lose him for nothing.

I know people in Calgary don't like the rules, but NCAA players playing all 4 years and going the UFA route are pretty rare. Additionally, CHL players that are unsigned also go back into the draft after 2 years...European players from countries with transfer agreements have 4 years to sign that player...differs from league to league, but ultimately getting drafted by a team has a finite term.

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/news/melt...rs/c-307757112

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Because it turns out Tom Dundon really is the smartest guy in the room, and not the arrogant meddler who would learn a painful lesson by defying NHL orthodoxy.

The only core player over 27 on the roster is Jordan Staal. They have over $6 mil in cap space. And they have the second highest winning percentage in the NHL.

They have not spent picks to beef up their roster, and with the biggest offseason signing was Jesper Fast.

One cannot help but admire what Carolina has done. But it sure does help to get lucky when doing it. Sebastian Aho is the #4 most productive player from his draft class, and he was passed over by 25 NHL teams.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Bruins picked Tyler Seguin #2 in 2010. I suppose that is technically eleven years, but it's a fairly arbitrary cut-off point, anyways.


But you said there were "many elite teams." That is different than merely "possible"; it suggests that it is commonplace. There is at best three teams, which shows that it clearly is not.

How many elite teams do you think there are in the league? There are 4 currently who did not pick in the top 4 in the past 10 years including the upcoming draft that you deem elite and you have not excluded like Washington. Half of the top 10 teams in the league according to the standings tonight have not had a top 4 pick in the last 9 drafts. The you have to draft high is just an excuse for poor franchises.

As for the arbitrary cutoff, one has to pick a cutoff somewhere.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

How many elite teams do you think there are in the league? There are 4 currently who did not pick in the top 4 in the past 10 years including the upcoming draft that you deem elite and you have not excluded like Washington. Half of the top 10 teams in the league according to the standings tonight have not had a top 4 pick in the last 9 drafts. The you have to draft high is just an excuse for poor franchises.

1. TB — drafted #2 in 2013
2. Washington — no top-four picks
3. NYI — drafted #4 in 2012
4. VGK — no top-four picks
5. Carolina — drafted #2 in 2018
6. Colorado — drafted #1, 4, and 4 in 2013, 2017, 2019
7. Toronto — drafted #4 and 1 in 2015, 2016
8. Florida — drafted #2 and 1 in 2013, 2014
9. Winnipeg — drafted #2 in 2016
10. Pittsburgh — no top-four picks

Three teams. Two of which have won championships in the past ten years on the backs of generational talents that were selected in the top-two, and one which built exclusively through the expansion draft.

Three teams by any measure is not "many teams."

As for the arbitrary cutoff, one has to pick a cutoff somewhere.

That's fair. But are you going to move the goalposts once more after I have again debunked your claim?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

1. TB — drafted #2 in 2013
2. Washington — no top-four picks
3. NYI — drafted #4 in 2012
4. VGK — no top-four picks
5. Carolina — drafted #2 in 2018
6. Colorado — drafted #1, 4, and 4 in 2013, 2017, 2019
7. Toronto — drafted #4 and 1 in 2015, 2016
8. Florida — drafted #2 and 1 in 2013, 2014
9. Winnipeg — drafted #2 in 2016
10. Pittsburgh — no top-four picks

Three teams. Two of which have won championships in the past ten years on the backs of generational talents that were selected in the top-two, and one which built exclusively through the expansion draft.


That's fair. But are you going to move the goalposts once more after I have again debunked your claim?

Well I said including this years draft as I assume the Islanders will not pick top 4, which would add them in. Current win percentage in the NHL (which is the only way you can determine the top 10 when every team has not played the same number of games) has 5 teams in the top 10 (NYI, Vegas, Washington, Minnesota, Boston) who including the 2021 draft will not have picked in the top 10.

To answer your point, you did not debunk my claim because you did not understand the goalposts and did not use the only way you can determine top 10 teams when every team has not played the same number of games.

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

1. TB — drafted #2 in 2013
2. Washington — no top-four picks
3. NYI — drafted #4 in 2012
4. VGK — no top-four picks
5. Carolina — drafted #2 in 2018
6. Colorado — drafted #1, 4, and 4 in 2013, 2017, 2019
7. Toronto — drafted #4 and 1 in 2015, 2016
8. Florida — drafted #2 and 1 in 2013, 2014
9. Winnipeg — drafted #2 in 2016
10. Pittsburgh — no top-four picks

Three teams. Two of which have won championships in the past ten years on the backs of generational talents that were selected in the top-two, and one which built exclusively through the expansion draft.

Three teams by any measure is not "many teams."


That's fair. But are you going to move the goalposts once more after I have again debunked your claim?

Lol, Griffin Reinhart is really pushing them to the top this year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

Lol, Griffin Reinhart is really pushing them to the top this year.

Well considering the pick they traded him for got them Barzal...yes